Battleship

[r-type]

Dumb fun is how I classify this movie, and I'm far from a chicken shit to admit to enjoying it. People just classify them differently. For example, I classify the Friedberg/Seltzer movies as garbage, but it's also why I don't spend any time talking about those. I highly doubt I've ever dissuaded anybody using the term "dumb fun", that didn't already make up their minds on something.

Why it's a crime to consider a movie thematically dumb and still find it enjoyable is beyond me. If you're harping on that notion because it's a disservice to how well these movies are made on a technical level, then ok, point: Bayhem. But then that's also in part why I'm still willing to part with my money to begin with for stuff like Battleship or Avengers.

[TIMtationX]

Saw it.

Yes, you can say that it was influenced by Bay's style, but it was still a Peter Berg movie with Peter Berg's trademark camera moves and editing. I thought it was very well made and for me it was a breath of fresh air - I don't remember the last time that I've seen a big-budget movie with a lot of water and biga$$ Navy ships fighting aliens. I have to admit though, I was expecting more from Jablonsky's score. There were moments where the music was great (the "My chair is your chair" scene for example), but overall I can't say that the score was something spectacular.


In the end, I can only say that in my opinion "Battleship" is a pretty effective action movie and I (unlike some other folks I talked to right after the movie), certainly wouldn't use the words "dumb fun" or "guilty pleasure" to describe it. For one, there's no such thing as "guilty pleasure" - these are just words for people who are too chickeshit to openly admit that they flat-out liked a commercial Hollywood action movie made for the masses. As for "dumb fun", that's the way I describe movies like "Epic Movie", "Date Movie" and "Disaster Movie". These are movies who rely on extremely dumb things to make people laugh. "Battleship" is much more sofisticated than these flicks and in my view it's just as entertaining as the overhyped "Avengers".


Both films rely on pretty much the same things - a lot of CGI, humor, crazy action scenes, mass destruction, weird alien creatures and so on and so on.

And I enjoyed them for that.

......How was the Avengers overhyped again? I forget.

[Bayhem]

Dumb fun is how I classify this movie, and I'm far from a chicken shit to admit to enjoying it. People just classify them differently.

Fair enough.

But what exactly is "dumb"? What's dumb about a movie that simply shows the human race fighting aliens? The movie's certainly not a comedy, it's straight up action spectacle with some humor to mix things up. Yes, there are some "extreme" scenes but we've seen these types of scenes in many other summer movies.

And "Dumb" and "Fun" are two different things - I get the "fun" part, but where's the "dumb"? Was the action dumb? I don't know, give me something concrete, something that would clasify it as "dumb".

And I just think that people use the "dumb fun" thingy way too often these days. It's like every summer movie that's coming out is automatically a dumb fun. But why is something like "Battleship", or "Transformers" for that matter, branded as dumb fun, while "The Dark Knight" is being called an "intelligent summer movie". I liked that movie, but I see nothing groundbreaking about it and to be honest I thought that most of the Joker's jokes were quite lame and not as interesting as one would expect. But still, I wouldn't call the movie "dumb" simply because I thought some of the stuff in it were dumb.

...to consider a movie thematically dumb...

Thematically? If we go down that road then it's safe to say that many superhero/alien invasion movies are also "thematically dumb". Wouldn't you agree?

If you're harping on that notion because it's a disservice to how well these movies are made on a technical level, then ok

Not only on technical level. In their own genre, "Battleship" and "Transformers" are in my opinion terrific action movies. Start to finish, every department. I'm not praising them only on technical level, I really do believe that they're great examples of the modern big-budget action cinema. And last but not least, there are great "serious" moments in these films - moments that elevate them. The "Bumblebee Captured" scene in "Transformers" and the scenes with Mick Canales in "Battleship".


In my book, every movie that has at least one or two scenes that show the humanity of the characters is a movie that does not deserve to be described as "dumb fun".

[Bayhem]

......How was the Avengers overhyped again? I forget.

Oh yes, my bad. It's actually quite underrated. : rol

Serioulsy now, just google "Avengers" and "overhyped" and enjoy the show.

[TIMtationX]

Oh yes, my bad. It's actually quite underrated. : rol

Serioulsy now, just google "Avengers" and "overhyped" and enjoy the show.

Okay, so i went and googled "Avengers" and "overhyped". I read a comment from someone that hated the "unrealistic storylines", another one who said X-Men First Class was a better movie with better visuals, and another who said it was overhyped simply because his friends hyped it up to him before he saw it. I quit while I was ahead.

Which brings me back to my original question: I asked YOU how the movie was overhyped. You said it, so you must believe it right?

[Bayhem]

You said it, so you must believe it right?

Of course.

I think it's overhyped because it suddenly is "the best summer movie ever", "the best action movie ever" and it's better than "Batman", "Transformers" and "Avatar" combined (and I'm not talking about the internet, I actually heard all of that while I was visiting a friend who's working in a theater). Now, I know a lot of people are crazy about that movie and I know that you're a huge fan too...but I really think that you (the fans) are hyping/praising it too much. Way too much.

Hell, there's even a thread on this forum that basically says that "Transformers" is not that good because it's not like "The Avengers" (that's just one example). All of a sudden, "The Avengers" is the crown jewel of summer blockbusters. Well, not in my book. Like I already said - I enjoyed it, but I certainly don't see it as something groundbreaking.


Anyway, back to "Battleship" now...

[swishbig]

Why does it matter if fans praise it or hype it up? They wouldn't be true fans if they didn't.

[dnn]

I was planning on seeing it today, but ran out of time. I'll see it for sure based on Bayhem's recommendation. It appeals to me for the same reason: it's a big movie set on water with naval battles, which is something you don't see much anymore on the screen.

I have to say I have no interest in seeing The Avengers beyond the cultural phenomenon. I get bored just watching the trailer. Never been a superhero fan.

[r-type]

But what exactly is "dumb"? What's dumb about a movie that simply shows the human race fighting aliens? The movie's certainly not a comedy, it's straight up action spectacle with some humor to mix things up. Yes, there are some "extreme" scenes but we've seen these types of scenes in many other summer movies.

And "Dumb" and "Fun" are two different things - I get the "fun" part, but where's the "dumb"? Was the action dumb? I don't know, give me something concrete, something that would clasify it as "dumb".

The Humor? Getting tazed for breaking and entering over a chicken burrito to Pink Panther and still getting the girl? Does it provide levity? Yes. Do I find it funny? Sure. Does any of that make it 'not' dumb? Or perhaps the dubious reasons why the aliens are doing what they're doing? Is that not a question I should ask of a movie? If you're asking me to cherry pick opinions only to be disproved by other opinions, we're just gonna go back and forth.

And I just think that people use the "dumb fun" thingy way too often these days. It's like every summer movie that's coming out is automatically a dumb fun. But why is something like "Battleship", or "Transformers" for that matter, branded as dumb fun, while "The Dark Knight" is being called an "intelligent summer movie". I liked that movie, but I see nothing groundbreaking about it and to be honest I thought that most of the Joker's jokes were quite lame and not as interesting as one would expect. But still, I wouldn't call the movie "dumb" simply because I thought some of the stuff in it were dumb.

If it's a beef with dumb being synonymous with fun, or not taking itself seriously, I understand. But I still think we fundamentally disagree with whether or not something constitutes as being dumb (in part or as a whole) and being openly able to enjoy it.

Thematically? If we go down that road then it's safe to say that many superhero/alien invasion movies are also "thematically dumb". Wouldn't you agree?

You assume I disagree? There are plenty that fall in that category. I should know, they're sitting on my shelf. You would also assume I treat movies like flavors of the month, I don't.

Not only on technical level. In their own genre, "Battleship" and "Transformers" are in my opinion terrific action movies. Start to finish, every department. I'm not praising them only on technical level, I really do believe that they're great examples of the modern big-budget action cinema. And last but not least, there are great "serious" moments in these films - moments that elevate them. The "Bumblebee Captured" scene in "Transformers" and the scenes with Mick Canales in "Battleship".

To clarify the technical, I really meant the effort spent in making these movies, from look to sound. I took your comments as taking issue with watering down a movie by calling it dumb as tantamount to pissing on everything else. Which I'm not.

And as far as these posts, I'm merely playing devil's advocate for the sake of argument. I still like the movie.

[starscream1017]

Of course.

I think it's overhyped because it suddenly is "the best summer movie ever", "the best action movie ever" and it's better than "Batman", "Transformers" and "Avatar" combined (and I'm not talking about the internet, I actually heard all of that while I was visiting a friend who's working in a theater). Now, I know a lot of people are crazy about that movie and I know that you're a huge fan too...but I really think that you (the fans) are hyping/praising it too much. Way too much.

Hell, there's even a thread on this forum that basically says that "Transformers" is not that good because it's not like "The Avengers" (that's just one example). All of a sudden, "The Avengers" is the crown jewel of summer blockbusters. Well, not in my book. Like I already said - I enjoyed it, but I certainly don't see it as something groundbreaking.


Anyway, back to "Battleship" now...

Agree with you! well said.. i have seen even TFLAMB say shit like "bay should take lessons from whedon before TF4, this is how a movie is done" i watched it.. i dont think it was better than tf dotm.. the story wasn't great, the action was okay, i just didnt find the movie funny.. laughed maybe twice.. and all of a sudden its the best movie ever! making a shit load of cash.. it was a good movie, but i dont see what the big deal is about the avengers.. i still feel like Thor had a better movie.. and i enjoyed Battleship far more than i did the avengers, like Ive said before..

[TIMtationX]

Of course.

I think it's overhyped because it suddenly is "the best summer movie ever", "the best action movie ever" and it's better than "Batman", "Transformers" and "Avatar" combined (and I'm not talking about the internet, I actually heard all of that while I was visiting a friend who's working in a theater). Now, I know a lot of people are crazy about that movie and I know that you're a huge fan too...but I really think that you (the fans) are hyping/praising it too much. Way too much.

Hell, there's even a thread on this forum that basically says that "Transformers" is not that good because it's not like "The Avengers" (that's just one example). All of a sudden, "The Avengers" is the crown jewel of summer blockbusters. Well, not in my book. Like I already said - I enjoyed it, but I certainly don't see it as something groundbreaking.


Anyway, back to "Battleship" now...

I still wouldn't classify a movie as being overhyped when the vast minority (you) are the one's that say it is.

[TIMtationX]

Agree with you! well said.. i have seen even TFLAMB say shit like "bay should take lessons from whedon before TF4, this is how a movie is done" i watched it.. i dont think it was better than tf dotm.. the story wasn't great, the action was okay, i just didnt find the movie funny.. laughed maybe twice.. and all of a sudden its the best movie ever! making a shit load of cash.. it was a good movie, but i dont see what the big deal is about the avengers.. i still feel like Thor had a better movie.. and i enjoyed Battleship far more than i did the avengers, like Ive said before..

And herein lies another problem. We're now going to have the issue of TF fans comparing every single action movie that's being released to Transformers, and every director's style is being compared to Bay's. The Battleship comparison I can understand, simply because of how the movie looks, but there was nothing in the Avengers that made me say "Oh, well Bay would've shot that scene better" or "The 3D was waaaaay better in DOTM because Bay actually shot it in 3D", which are just a few comments that I'VE seen around the web. And those giant flying leviathans looked absolutely nothing like the DOTM driller. They are two completely different movies in my opinion...But I enjoyed both very much....

I'll be dragging my unexcited wife to see Battleship with me this afternoon, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. Her, not so much.

[Bayhem]

I still wouldn't classify a movie as being overhyped when the vast minority (you) are the one's that say it is.

I don't care if I'm the only person on the planet who thinks this film is "overhyped". I stick to what I said - and what I said was clearly coming from my own observation out in the real world. And I'm not forcing you to agree with everything I say.

By the way, it's pretty clear that you have a problem with people who are not praising the hell out of that movie. I was talking about "Battleship" and you decided to derail this entire thread just because I called your beloved movie "overhyped". You quoted my entire post just to respond with some lame sarcastic comment about one of the words I used. That's a fanboy behavior right there.

You've made some pretty harsh comments about movies that I like, but I certainly didn't derail an entire thread just to have a pointless argument with you.

Now, can we go back to "Battleship"?

[Bayhem]

But I still think we fundamentally disagree with whether or not something constitutes as being dumb (in part or as a whole) and being openly able to enjoy it.

There's nothing wrong if people enjoy some dumb fun. Question is: what is "dumb fun"?

I'll try to explain my position in a very simple way: I don't believe in putting a line between the summer action films. I don't like when movies who are clearly not designed to be dumb are being described as "dumb". Again, I'll use the Friedberg/Seltzer flicks as examples - now, these are movies that are clearly dumb and they rely on that. You may think they're nothing but dog crap but there are a lot of people who fully enjoy them as "dumb fun" (I'm not one of them, by the way). And I don't think it's fair and I don't think it's right to put a movie like "Battleship" basically in the same "dumb fun" category as "Epic Movie". No matter how dumb (thematically) it is, or how many dumb scenes it has. I know you didn't compare them, but a lot of other people put them in one box. I'm talking about them.


I also don't think it's fair to call a movie like "Battleship" dumb just because it's based on a board game and just because it relies not on characters but on action and CGI. Yes, I know there are some dumb moments in the movie, but I've seen these types of scenes in other more "respected" films. Double standard?


Bottom line, I don't create 20 different categories (dumb, intelligent, kinda dumb...) for the summer action films. The critics do that, I don't. I expect only one thing from these films: to be entertained. "Battleship" entertains me with non-stop action while "The Dark Knight" entertains me with less action, but more character interaction. "Buttleship" is not dumber just because we don't enter the character's minds every 5 minutes. Both films are, in my opinion, great summer entertainment. The approach is diiferent, but at the end of the day they did their job.


As for the rest of your comments I appreciate them and I know where you're coming from, but if I start responding to every one of them we'll go nowhere. After all, most of it is just matter of personal opinion.

[sora]

Nice to see a healthy debate going on in here.

I found this movie charming because it had a lot of elements here and there, mental growth, overcoming and comeback, family matters, cowardice and courage, rivalry and friendship, youth and old age, it was kind of like Top Gun + Die Hard + Space Cowboys mixed all together. A lovely movie. Also good to see a big sea fight in a modern VFX way (kudos to ILM Singapore). My only complaint was that alien species looked a bit underwritten (never mind, I'm known to overwrite backgrounds as fans say "ridiculously detailed", so this might be just nitpicking).

i have seen even TFLAMB say shit like "bay should take lessons from whedon before TF4, this is how a movie is done"

Off topic: I, too, sometimes feel out of place when a majority of American critics and audiences collectively say "movie A is great, so movie B should be like A, or movie C should've been done like A". Every movie has its charm in their own ways. Why don't they enjoy differences? /Off topic

[Albershide]

Different people - different opinions. It's really hard to interpret on the web what someone realy means by saying a certain word. I think I understand what r-type means by dumb fun. I felt the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the movie and as I said before I even enjoyed it more than The Avengers. But still the move was shot underestimating the audience. Everything that happened on the screen was explained to the audience as they are really dumb. There was nothing left for the audience to figure it out by themselves. I watched the movie a month ago and forgot most of the things that made me such impression. For example I remember that the jet that bombed the last alien ship had "Bomber" written on his helmet so that the audience should understand what is his purpose. Also the red and green modes of the alien vision were a bit too much overused. And several other things that will pop your eyes trying to explain what's happening on the screen. Also the alien invasion left you asking many questions like "why the hell they did that and not just that" etc.
Still I had great 2 hours in the cinema and it was fun.
I hope I make sense.

[Trailbreaker]

This was probably the loudest movie I have ever seen.

[TIMtationX]

Just watched. Really enjoyed it. The USS Missouri action scene was awesome. Definitely a Blu Ray purchase.

[Ed Fuego]

Pretty awesome movie. Seeing it in a town with a Navy base adds a certain amount of excitement from the audience. The vfx were good, the story, while predictable, was fun. It definitely had many moments of "Oh shit, ya'll in trouble now!", which for me, is pretty much what I live for in a movie, especially a summer movie. I like Peter Berg as a director, and I'm pretty sure I read that when he saw Transformers: DOTM, he basically said, "That's the kind of movie I want to make!" I think he did a pretty good job making a fun, action packed, kick-ass movie.

Ed Fuego

[TIMtationX]

I didn't think this movie would open huge, but I didn't expect a 25.3 million weekend. It looks like the constant comparisons to Transformers did more harm than good.

It's a shame, because it's a pretty good movie.

[Trailbreaker]

It's a shame, because it's a pretty good movie.

It really is a shame, because despite the sheer absurdity of adapting a board game into a movie, it kicked shiploads of ass, IMO. There's nothing more awesome than watching the Navy pumping thousands of pounds of lead into alien warships with heavy metal rocking in the background. Okay, maybe giant transforming robots are more awesome, but still. Navy. Aliens. Fighting. Kickass.

And I stand by my previous comment, it was indeed the loudest movie I have ever seen. But that's merely an observation on my part.

Oh, and I got this immediately after the movie. Yes, Hasbro seduced me with there 2+ hour toy commercial. I regret nothing.

[Bot of Badassness]

Oh, and I got this immediately after the movie. Yes, Hasbro seduced me with there 2+ hour toy commercial. I regret nothing.

You could also play the Facebook game, where you can unlock clips from the movie. I have 13 so far.

[Bot of Badassness]

no, 15 clips now

[Bayhem]

I feel bad for Berg. Not only the movie's not doing so well at the box office but now he's not even "allowed" to be in charge of these types of films...at least according to this article:


"...there is a science to gigantic action movies, and without one of these steady hands on the tiller, things get messy, fast:

Peter Jackson. James Cameron. Michael Bay. Robert Zemeckis. Sam Raimi. Gore Verbinski. Christopher Nolan. Ridley Scott. Roland Emmerich. Chris Columbus. Tim Burton.

From now on, only members of the Billionaire Boys Club will get shoot-for-the-moon budgets."


- http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/five-...attleship.html

[TIMtationX]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Taylor Kitsch probably won't be starring in any more big budget blockbusters.