Looking back at the Movie

[RealHero]

Hey,

First post on here, nice little forum.

Just looking back at Transformers; being a Trans-fan and all; it was amazing to see the bots in such amazing CGI with some pretty cool action sequences. I think that Bay really knows how to make things look really official and top-notch, which he did with Transformers.

I am a screenwriter myself and I always pay close attention to the screenplay of EVERY film that I watch, no matter the genre and I felt that the story and plot was very thin with Transformers 1. Okay, Transformers does not need to be shakespeare but the story and the characters were just not up to scratch. I did not feel like I knew the characters of the Autobots and definitely not the Decepticons. It just felt like if those screenwriters had made a better balance between humans and robots; by showing how the Autobots and Decepticons differ in personality and combat method as well as showing how the Autobots and humans work together THROUGHOUT the film, it would have been better and even made more money. Many trans-fans I know watched it once and said that they were let down by how there was little to no characterization of the bots.

I mean, Starscream said ONE LINE and Megan Fox had one too many....
For me, it was really not a very good film but the marketing, idea and how official it looked brought in those bucks. I think those screenwriters were paid something like 8 million or will be paid that much for writing the sequel...mind-boggling.


p.s. Now, if only Bay would accept a sequel treatment from me that is a few days from being finished

[King of Kings]

Hi and welcome.

All I'm gonna say is what you think is good or bad might not be what others think is good or bad, granted I do think the TF's didn't get to show their personalites as well as I would have liked but you have to look at budget restraints when it comes to how much screentime the CGI characters can get.

[RealHero]

My issue with the whole cgi thing is this...I felt that it was a bad idea not to have the bots talk in vehicle mode. If they can only talk in bot mode and there are budget constraints, then that means that the characters of the transformers will suffer for it.
In the end, we knew NOTHING about the Decepticons character-wise and not quite enough about the Autobots. Though, I loved the voice-work of Prime obviously and Ironhide.

[King of Kings]

The Decepticons talked in vehicle mode when Frenzy sent out the message that he had located the Allspark, granted that was in cybertronian and they gave Brawl the wrong name but they did talk in vehicle mode, but the Autobots should have talked in vehicle mode.

[MaxGod]

NEGATIVE
1. not enaugh screentime for the robots
2. i missed frank welker
3. megan fox was a bad choice (even if she looked damn hot she didn't fit the role)
(3.1 not enaugh nude scenes to safe megan fox from point 3)
4. i didn't like the abrupt ending
5. i missed the g1-tf-theme
6. starscream looked like a mongoloid
7. i don't like the hasbro movie-toys. classics are way cooler
8. didn't like many of the new decepticons. hopefully shockwave, soundwave and the real devastator will appear in tf2
9. what was the computer hacker good for?
10. the prequel comic was crappy

POSITIVE
1. optimus, bumblebee, ironhide, ratchet, jazz, megatron, blackout, frenzy, barricade looked awesome. cgi was amazing
2. i liked the linkin park song
3. shia l.b. really looked like g1-spike. excellent choice!
4. i liked the childish g1-humor
5. peter cullen is god! (or maybe some kind of 2nd virtual father)
6. the film treated g1 with respect (hit that old VW!) but also introduced some great new characters. bobby bolivia was kinda cool!
7. the movie was a general impulse for transformers
8. we heared some historic quotations ("freedom ist the right....")
9. i liked spielberg's idea of the boy-car relationship and bumblebee's communication problems
10. even my girlfriend liked the movie! usually she gives a damn about my tf-collection

in the end bay did a good job. he communicated with the fans, signed cullen, changed ugly megatron into an impressive monster and managed to make fun about his own armageddon movie. i think he will do even better in the sequel. go michael!

[uraydo]

Hi and welcome.

All I'm gonna say is what you think is good or bad might not be what others think is good or bad, granted I do think the TF's didn't get to show their personalites as well as I would have liked but you have to look at budget restraints when it comes to how much screentime the CGI characters can get.

Relativity can only go so far. Ask anyone who writes scripts (and I exclude bias fans (negative or positive)) and they will agree that the story telling and plot where really weak, despite if liked the film or not. This talk about to each his own, has got to go. I'm even getting sick of hearing "Bay directs movies for the average joe." There is a reason his name is Average Joe. Its because he is an idiot that couldn't tell you in depth why he liked or disliked something.

"To each his own" is a phrase that allows Adult Swim to air the crap they air and MTV to continue running without music videos.

If we keep buying shit, shit will be sold.

[xAgonyxScenex]

ya, my biggest problem was how the bots were not that fleshed out...but such is the case i suppose with budget constraints

[RealHero]

I know the budget constraint issue, that is why the bots should talk vehicle mode. If not, then their characterization will be limited.

[Mech_1000]

I know the budget constraint issue, that is why the bots should talk vehicle mode. If not, then their characterization will be limited.

I agree, heroes alive or machine, need to have a background, they need to have input, and they need to be developed. They can talk as cars through their radios, bumble bee did it for most of the movie.

And to get really anally technical about it. When they speak it comes out of their speakers. So while in vehicle mode their speakers should still work (Bumble Bee's sure did).

[RealHero]

I agree, heroes alive or machine, need to have a background, they need to have input, and they need to be developed. They can talk as cars through their radios, bumble bee did it for most of the movie.

And to get really anally technical about it. When they speak it comes out of their speakers. So while in vehicle mode their speakers should still work (Bumble Bee's sure did).

Yeh, so true. I really think Orci and Kurtzmann messed up on that front. I'd sure love to be given a chance to present my script sequel to the movie with changes that are feasible and make sense.

[StefsChemicalRomance]

I agree, heroes alive or machine, need to have a background, they need to have input, and they need to be developed. They can talk as cars through their radios, bumble bee did it for most of the movie.

And to get really anally technical about it. When they speak it comes out of their speakers. So while in vehicle mode their speakers should still work (Bumble Bee's sure did).

.. Did you not see the Decepticons talking to each other while in vehicle mode..?

[RealHero]

It was for like once scene when they all mobilize....AND it was in freakin cybertronian.

[Mech_1000]

.. Did you not see the Decepticons talking to each other while in vehicle mode..?

the villains did, heroes didn't

[StefsChemicalRomance]

Still - They did it. :P

[Mech_1000]

Still - They did it. :P

A monkey can accidently type one line of text consisting of 4 words

[StefsChemicalRomance]

See! Even monkeys can do it ...

[Smokescreen_5]

Is it worth it to even comment on this thread considering its intention for a doorway of controversial arguments and flames? Nahh.. I'd rather this thread was closed...

[RealHero]

Well, it seems pretty safe here, so far.

[Superion]

Relativity can only go so far. Ask anyone who writes scripts (and I exclude bias fans (negative or positive)) and they will agree that the story telling and plot where really weak, despite if liked the film or not. This talk about to each his own, has got to go. I'm even getting sick of hearing "Bay directs movies for the average joe." There is a reason his name is Average Joe. Its because he is an idiot that couldn't tell you in depth why he liked or disliked something.

"To each his own" is a phrase that allows Adult Swim to air the crap they air and MTV to continue running without music videos.

If we keep buying shit, shit will be sold.

I have to disagree - and I've written several scripts and spent a considerable amount of time and money learning how to write for the screen. My dvd collection leans more towards Bergman and Herzog, than Bay and Lucas, but that doesn't mean I don't know a well-made blockbuster when I see one.

Part of the problem lies in the assumption that we "should" know more about the robots, that their characters "should" be fleshed out more. But that is only important if you wanted the movie to be a story entirely about a group of alien robots - I didn't want that, and I think the vast majority of moviegoers didn't want that: we wanted a story about how the arrival of said aliens affects the lives of ordinary human beings on Earth - and that's what we got, and that's why this movie is in the top 20 all-time box office successes. As far as character development goes, it was mainly limited to the characters of Sam and Mikaela, but what was there was good, and more subtle than you might think.

The idea is that Sam lives an extremely comfortable existence with his wealthy liberal parents, and Mikaela has obviously led a much harder life up to this point. Despite Sam's nice life, his family has the somewhat incongruous motto "no sacrifice, no victory" - and it is Mikaela who makes Sam aware of the incongruity when she asks him "when have you ever had to sacrifice anything in your perfect life?" - which leads to Sam risking having to make the ultimate sacrifice - his life - in the final act. The military team also have a story arc of sorts, because after seeing many of their buddies killed by Blackout, they are the ones who take him out at he end, allowing them to achieve a kind of "closure".

Granted, this stuff isn't Shakespeare, but why should it be? I can show you weak dialogue or characterization in any big-budget movie you care to name, Transformers was comparatively good.

I do agree with the suggestion that they should talk while in vehicle mode though - that would be a great idea to expand on in Part 2

[uraydo]

I have to disagree - and I've written several scripts and spent a considerable amount of time and money learning how to write for the screen. My dvd collection leans more towards Bergman and Herzog, than Bay and Lucas, but that doesn't mean I don't know a well-made blockbuster when I see one.

Part of the problem lies in the assumption that we "should" know more about the robots, that their characters "should" be fleshed out more. But that is only important if you wanted the movie to be a story entirely about a group of alien robots - I didn't want that, and I think the vast majority of moviegoers didn't want that: we wanted a story about how the arrival of said aliens affects the lives of ordinary human beings on Earth - and that's what we got, and that's why this movie is in the top 20 all-time box office successes. As far as character development goes, it was mainly limited to the characters of Sam and Mikaela, but what was there was good, and more subtle than you might think.

The idea is that Sam lives an extremely comfortable existence with his wealthy liberal parents, and Mikaela has obviously led a much harder life up to this point. Despite Sam's nice life, his family has the somewhat incongruous motto "no sacrifice, no victory" - and it is Mikaela who makes Sam aware of the incongruity when she asks him "when have you ever had to sacrifice anything in your perfect life?" - which leads to Sam risking having to make the ultimate sacrifice - his life - in the final act. The military team also have a story arc of sorts, because after seeing many of their buddies killed by Blackout, they are the ones who take him out at he end, allowing them to achieve a kind of "closure".

Granted, this stuff isn't Shakespeare, but why should it be? I can show you weak dialogue or characterization in any big-budget movie you care to name, Transformers was comparatively good.

I do agree with the suggestion that they should talk while in vehicle mode though - that would be a great idea to expand on in Part 2

disclaimer: I totally respect your education in script writing. I have taken scriptwriting for sequential art which is probably a little different. nothing I say is meant to shoot down anything you say, it's just my opinion and theory. Also I think Bay did a good job with Transformers, I just hope he does an AWESOME job with the next one.


I think the majority of people knew it wasn't going to be completely about the robots, and thats what makes transformers such a great concept. I've read humanless transformer stories and they are nothing special. then again, human heavy transformer stories aren't great either.

as far as story goes, it was kinda all over the place. also, I find it hard to find a point to the whole thing. at first thought, the story is meant to showcase robot fights. but if that is the case, then why is the coolest fight in the movie (Prime vs Megatron) put on the back burner through most of its duration? also, what the hell is Sam doing delivering the final blow. If anything Bumblebee should have had a hand in the end of Megatron.

also, this movie had its share of brain farts. sector 7 was trite as best. there involvement slowed the momentum of the film and simply they just pissed me off. all human technology being reversed engineered for Megatron was a dumb idea, as it totally makes the human race sound like a bunch of goober heads. (also, how the hell was the automoble reverse engineered off Megatron? what does a Model T have to do with Megatron?... that's just insulting.)

further more, there are a ton of flaws in the very mechanics of the world, such as how coldness of space has no effect on Transformers, yet snowblowers can bring one down.

human characters were great, but most of the robot characters were sub par. from his bio, Bonechrusher was an awesome character, and we got none of that from the movie. also I heard someone call Starscream a loyalist to Megatron. Then we get to Jazz, who's death meant NOTHING. I was more sad for Frenzy's passing. at least the Autobots could have been sad for him. PRIME MORNED OVER MEGATRON 80 TIMES MORE THAN HE DID FOR JAZZ! WHAT SINCE DOES THAT MAKE?


I was really hoping to prove a lot of nay sayers wrong when it was released in the theaters... Now all I can say is, (and this is true with most Transformer stories I like) "Well, I like it."

[Mobe1969]

I have to disagree - and I've written several scripts and spent a considerable amount of time and money learning how to write for the screen. My dvd collection leans more towards Bergman and Herzog, than Bay and Lucas, but that doesn't mean I don't know a well-made blockbuster when I see one.

Part of the problem lies in the assumption that we "should" know more about the robots, that their characters "should" be fleshed out more. But that is only important if you wanted the movie to be a story entirely about a group of alien robots - I didn't want that, and I think the vast majority of moviegoers didn't want that: we wanted a story about how the arrival of said aliens affects the lives of ordinary human beings on Earth - and that's what we got, and that's why this movie is in the top 20 all-time box office successes. As far as character development goes, it was mainly limited to the characters of Sam and Mikaela, but what was there was good, and more subtle than you might think.

The idea is that Sam lives an extremely comfortable existence with his wealthy liberal parents, and Mikaela has obviously led a much harder life up to this point. Despite Sam's nice life, his family has the somewhat incongruous motto "no sacrifice, no victory" - and it is Mikaela who makes Sam aware of the incongruity when she asks him "when have you ever had to sacrifice anything in your perfect life?" - which leads to Sam risking having to make the ultimate sacrifice - his life - in the final act. The military team also have a story arc of sorts, because after seeing many of their buddies killed by Blackout, they are the ones who take him out at he end, allowing them to achieve a kind of "closure".

Granted, this stuff isn't Shakespeare, but why should it be? I can show you weak dialogue or characterization in any big-budget movie you care to name, Transformers was comparatively good.

I do agree with the suggestion that they should talk while in vehicle mode though - that would be a great idea to expand on in Part 2

Mate, you lost me after the Bergman Herzog comment. We should have had more angst in it, and get to the root of why the decepticons were so angry. Or have a crazed Klaus Kinski archetype behaving irrationally and trying to drag the cube over a mountain to get it to the other side, and strugging with his inner demons...

:P

I try to have a suspension of disbelief in films now, and just go along for the ride. I watch a Cronenberg, Lynch, or Herzog film I prepare to think a bit harder. I watch a Michael Bay film I go to smile all the way through it...

[raddimus]

Okay; my turn to chime in on this debate.I think this is a great discussion you both have going on.I agree and disagree with you both on many points. Firstly megan fox is hot!... With that said she is a second rate actress unlike shia. I have seen and heard her being directed by bay and how many times she had to redo things, becuase she had a lack of emotion or a deadpan face in her pantamimes. Now she is mikeala,I certainly hope Bay doesn't switch her out.Hopefully she'll do a better job acting.
I will secondly say; this is a three part installment...if not more. So I understand Bay having much dialogue for the human characters. Trying to build up relations between bots and certain humans. So I kinda expect to see more dialogue for all bot in the next movie and an expansion for the decepticons. I do think bots talking in car form...was well done when done. but shoulda been expanded on.Like when mikeala and sam look back to see bone crusher; be coulda chimed in are we coulda heard prime say keep going bee I'll take care of this or something... There will always be something missing or lacking in any film. Overall it was well done, and I look forward to see what's to come in the future!

[raddimus]

yhea and I do think mikeala was needed but like I said not well acted in many scenes...Her face when kidnapped by sector seven is almost the exact facial pantamimes she used when drivingbee back through the city. she lacks an emotional quality some actors can bring.

[Mobe1969]

yhea and I do think mikeala was needed but like I said not well acted in many scenes...Her face when kidnapped by sector seven is almost the exact facial pantamimes she used when drivingbee back through the city. she lacks an emotional quality some actors can bring.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree on your comments on her. She didn't have much presence other than physical attributes...

[Smokescreen_5]

Yeah, I'd tend to agree on your comments on her. She didn't have much presence other than physical attributes...

OMG.. she was hot.. like when she was looking under the hood of Bumblebee.. in that outfit.. I just wanted to bend her over the hood and.. umm.. uhh.. yeah.. so what was it about the movie again?" LOL