Blu-Ray Bay

[OrangeCrush]

Really is quite unfortunate that you are so gladly just allowing yourself to be a pawn in all this. Picking and choosing sides for all to see for the amusement of Blu Ray enthusiasts.

I own both Blu Ray and HD-DVD, but it really is unfortunate to constantly read your stance on the formats not because I prefer one over the other, but because you actually make people like myself feel like total idiots for actually thinking to buy and support your movie on HD-DVD, but who cares we're all just insignificant idiots anyway.

If only to show your appreciation to the people that went out and purchased the HD-DVD version of your movie, just like we showed our appreciation for your work on Transformers by purchasing it in HD-DVD, it would've been nice for you to not constantly belittle our choice in doing so. I will personally never purchase another Michael Bay film.

LOL, you can say that again. He has basically come out and belittled every single person who has purchased Transformers on HD DVD. To be honest I really have not seen this kind of behavior coming from a well renowned and respected director before and I am with you 100%. Reading this crap just makes me feel like a jackass for actually spending my hard earned money on his film instead of simply downloading the HD version. The next time I see a Michal Bay film on the store shelves I will absolutely remember these kinds of comments and his overall respect, or should I say disrespect, for people that dont share the same opinion regarding home theatre equipment..

[Ravenholm Mayor]

I own both a PS3 and an X-Box 360 with the HD-DVD drive add-on.

Now I am not a supporter of just one side, I buy for both depending on which player gets it. I watch the movie, and I enjoy it. I have done side by side tests on an equal monitor for each, and the quality is the same on both. I get my hi-def experience I paid for, I get my movie. I am happy.

Though apparently some of Hollywood's shining directors are not happy with the chance of a life time to see their dream come to film and have the fame and achievement along with it. So they have to say their every little complaint about a format which their movie is released on. I see no reason why you should complain, your movie was an international hit, you have millions of adoring fans. Why complain about what format the film is released on for home theaters? I doubt you can't afford both players, and isn't this the studio's job to take care of? I mean as long as your film is released on any format, you should be happy. You have done your job.

But honestly, complaining on a forum about a format war is something I expect to see when I visit GameFaqs or somewhere where the users are underage and immature, not from one of our country's leaders in the entertainment industry.

I myself bought Transformers on HDDVD the day it was released, I was amazed with the quality and had no qualms about my purchase. I still do not regret buying it, I just wish there was a bit more pride in Hollywood on the subject. Film directors are of the many role models for the next generation, please try to act with a little dignity rather than gaining the praise of an angry bunch of format extremists.

I myself aspire to work with film-makers in the future, I write screen-plays for things I have either written and read, and I really admire you Mr. Bay, but I really don't think impressing a group of format extremists is an admirable way to spend your time. I much rather read about your next film, how filming is going, or even something you thought would be a good thing to share with your fans rather than strike up chaos.

[Ranger]

Congratulations Michael and Nelson. You've both clearly been big Blu-ray supporters so I appreciate your excitement at the Warner decision. It's dissapointing for me as I don't really like the Blu-ray format, but at the end of the day it's the content that matters most.

I think studio momentum is clearly toward Blu-ray now. New-Line has already announced that they'll follow Warner. Paramount may or may not have to wait until 2009, depending on the terms of their agreement. We'll see what Universal decides as well.

Word on the forums has been that both sides were in negotiations with Warner right up to the last week or so.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/show...864#post591864

In the end it looks like the Blu-ray group was able to put together a good package for Warner and keep Fox in the fold.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/04...rner-went-blu/

It's time for me to look for a good universal player or roll my own.

[mntwister]

Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!

Bay

I've been with blu-ray since before it was even available. I have enjoyed uncompressed audio on every single release from Fox, Sony/Columbia, Disney, MGM, and most from Lionsgate and Anchor Bar/Starz. Can't say the same for hd-dvd. I was ready to buy the Samsung combi player bd-up5000 which just came out. Plays both formats. Then I decided to look at some of the movies I wanted on hd-dvd (and there weren't that many). All 10, except for one, had no lossless soundtrack. And they are calling this "The Look and SOUND of perfect." Even Transformers, while the sound is good (heard it at a friend's home) suffered somewhat because lossless sound would have kicked butt on this film.

Hd-dvd tried everything. $98 players, 10 free movies with each player, buy-one-get-one-free sales on Amazon and at Best Buy and C>City, and nothing they did could win them one single week of software sales in 2007. Even the week of Transformers and the week of Bourne, blu-ray won those weeks, not because Transformers did not sell, but because there is much more entheusiasm for blu-ray and there are over 3 million players out there now. Imagine the sales figures when Transformers hits blu-ray.

I have never been one to buy game machines, the last one I owned was the Super Nintendo (remember Yoshi's Island and Super Mario Brothers?). I always bought stand-alone players. This time I got myself a PS3. It's awesome. And, unexpectedly, I have become a gamer too.

Michael, we will all cheer when Transformers hits blu-ray. My hats off to Warner for choosing the best format with more space (which allows for those Dts Master and PCM soundtracks). Heck, even the blu covers look better. Warner is so huge that I think the format war is over in a short time. Thank God.

[Mobe1969]

Umm 10 years ago I was on dial-up, now I'm on broadband cable internet. In 10 years I can easily see myself on something faster.
(snip)
As far as Microsoft backing HD-DVD I think they said they are backing HD-DVD, but planning for which ever wins. If they put an HD-DVD drive in from the beginning they would have been locked into the format. Now they can go, "Oh well HD-DVD didn't win. We choose wrong. Here is our new Blu-Ray player add-on for the 360." Which is smart buisness on their part.

10 years ago I and a lot of people were on broadband. Just because you were on dialup doesn't mean that fast alternatives equivalent to what you have today were not around. They were. And they haven't changed in that 10 year period.

And regarding MS, well, you can argue that with the HDDVD drive, but the decision not to put a Hard Drive in the machine was a fatally stupid mistake that I can't ignore. It relegates developers to have to always cater for the lowest common denominator for games. No matter how great a new model Elite or Supreme or whatever 360 MS produces, from a development perspective it means squat as they have to cater for the bog standard system.

And regarding Sony, well people could also argue that they shouldn't have put a DVD drive in the PS2 with exactly the same logic...

I didn't say sony did anything wrong. In fact, it appears they did something very right. It was a very smart business move.

However, bluray is not winning because its technically superior or anything like that. It's winning 'cause its in the PS3. That's all there is to it. I challenge you to come up with any realworld statistics that show that Bluray has legs without the PS3.

Japan. Blu Ray had a majority of sales in Japan even prior to the PS3 being released. Even if not a single PS3 had been sold it'd have legs. As it is, it has wiped it hole with HDDVD with a sales ratio of 96:4.

And I sure as hell wish HDDVD sycophants would get their shit straight regarding the PS3. They may have a point but fucked if I know what it is. On one hand we have people saying that the PS3 made HDDVD loose, and on the other hand we get to hear all these stats saying that PS3 owners have super low Blu Rays take up rates, and aren't buying Blu Rays.

And I would like to make the point that I'm not a blu ray fan boy. For purely selfish reasons I wish HDDVD had won (no region locking - I live in Australia), plus the fact that there isn't actually a blu ray standard yet and it is continually changing is going to (and already has) lead to a lot of problems with players. I was just realistic to see the writing on the wall for hddvd from a sales perspective everywhere on the planet. I can appreciate Michael Bay's stance on the matter from a technical viewpoint, but as a viewer, I care for nothing more than best picture and sound. And both formats gave it. HDDVD had less strings attached. All the other technical atvantages of each format are just useless trinkets to me and I guess a lot of others.

And you know what, if warner and fox had flipped to HDDVD in the US, and HDDVD had won, it would not have been a worldwide victory. There is no way in places like Japan where HDDVD sales are just insignificant that they suddenly stop blu ray. We'd end up with different HD formats in different parts of the world I'd expect...

[Robertazimmerman]

Isn't it interesting how bluray is considered "superior", when HD DVD audio quality regularly trashes the equivalent bluray discs and how there have been many more instances of defective bluray discs than HD DVD ones?

The only advantage that the Sony drones had was the larger capacity of the initial single layer and double layer discs, 25GB vs. 15GB and 50GB vs. 30GB. Once the HD DVD forum approved the 51GB discs, the formats' capabilities and capacities were essentially identical.

When the studios start releasing quality movies in HD, such as those issued by Criterion, I'll consider a HD machine. Until such time, you can keep the so-called Hollywood blockbusters - they're beyond boring.

Roberta

[subtitles]

Hello,

For Michael Bay's films in High Def- well its just like his DVDs - I go where I can for the best.

At the moment we have -

The Rock: Blu-Ray
Pearl Harbor: Blu-Ray
The Island: HD-DVD (Europe)
Transformers: HD-DVD

Both The Island, and Transformers are very underwhelming sound wise.

Only carrying a Dolby Digital Plus audio track for a Michael Bay film just doesn't cut it. Maybe for Animal House, or the 1000th release of Army of Darkness - but for Michael Bay's movies we need Dolby TrueHD, or better, DTS Master Audio.

(If we were dealing with Blu-Ray uncompressed PCM would be just a nice.)

The rest of Michael Bay's films:
Bad Boys
The Rock
Armageddon,
Pearl Harbor
Bad Boys II

...have all had balls to wall the wall (DTS) audio options on DVD. Two have made it to the Criterion Collection, another two onto Superbit DVD, and Pearl Harbor - Director's Cut not only included DTS Audio but was THX Certified.

The last two films have had great video - but again underwhelming sound with just Dolby Digital/Dolby Digital Plus 5.1. I was most grateful for commentaries on both of them.

So, using the last of my few moments to have you ear it would be great to see:

The Director's Cut of Pearl Harbor make it Blu-Ray with a better a video encode then MPEG-2 (which was used for the Theatrical Blu-Ray disc).

The Island/Transformers released on High-def with better audio (TrueHD/DTS-MA/PCM).

The rest of your catalog given the same attention to detail, quality, performance as is put into the film itself.

Peace out, thanks for listening.

[subtitles]

Hello,

For Michael Bay's films in High Def- well its just like his DVDs - I go where I can for the best.

At the moment we have -

The Rock: Blu-Ray
Pearl Harbor: Blu-Ray
The Island: HD-DVD (Europe)
Transformers: HD-DVD

Both The Island, and Transformers are very underwhelming sound wise.

Only carrying a Dolby Digital Plus audio track for a Michael Bay film just doesn't cut it. Maybe for Animal House, or the 1000th release of Army of Darkness - but for a Michael Bay film we need Dolby TrueHD, or better, DTS Master Audio.

(If we were dealing with Blu-Ray uncompressed PCM would be just as nice.)

The rest of Michael Bay's films -
Bad Boys
The Rock
Armageddon
Bad Boys II
Pearl Harbor

...have all had balls to the wall (DTS) audio options on DVD. Two have made it to the Criterion Collection, two others onto Superbit DVD, and Pearl Harbor - Director's Cut not only had DTS Audio but was THX Certified.

The last two films have had great video - but again underwhelming sound with just Dolby Digital 5.1. However, I was most grateful for commentaries on both of them.

So, using the last of my few moments to have your ear it would be great to see:

The Director's Cut of Pearl Harbor make it Blu-Ray with a better video encode then MPEG-2 (as was with the Theatrical Blu-Ray Disc).

The Island/Transformers released with better audio (TrueHD/DTS-MA/PCM).

The rest of your catalog given the same attention to detail/quality/performance as is put into the film itself.

Peace out, thanks for listening.

[Lord Moon]

This is what I don't understand...who says you will download mirrors of the Blu-ray disk (or VOBs)?

iTunes does not offer lossless files off CDs and that has not stopped people from downloading music and movies.

If you go to Xbox live and download a 1.5GB movie encoded at 720p...it takes al but 15 minutes to download via Comcast cable and it looks decent.

Companies will never let you download exact mirror copies of the movies. They will offer compressed alternatives.

They will when they realize it's cheaper.

If you were a movie studio which would you rather do? Spend money on a booklet, cover, case, a disc, all the people on the on those assembly lines to put it all together for you, storage, and then shipping.

Or you could make your movie into a file for download and charge the same price, additionally you can license that same file to other download services for a fee and a cut of the profits, and if that wasn't enough you can also license the movie to "on demand" services for a fee.

A major studio does not care a lick about quality, they care about money, profit.

When the technology is good enough that general consumers will except it then the studios will run with it. Will it be 1080p? doubt it, probably 720p but that will be good enough for the general public. The general public is not gonna care if the movie is uber-quality. Why do you think Criterion went out of business? Not enough customers. The general public is not going to care and the studios are not going to care. Oh sure for certain movies folks will demand 1080p, Star Wars, Citizen Kane etc., but for most part don't expect it.

[Lord Moon]

10 years ago I and a lot of people were on broadband. Just because you were on dialup doesn't mean that fast alternatives equivalent to what you have today were not around. They were. And they haven't changed in that 10 year period.

Not saying that it wasn't around. The change was they made it somewhat affordable and more available for the general public in that time period. Prior to that you had to be in a big city and pay an large fee. Glad you could could afford it back then, good for you.

Ya'll still seem to miss the point and seem to think that once Blu-Ray wins that's it. No more formats will ever come out ever again.

Nice you guys wanna live in that fantasy world, but I live in the real world where technology is improving every day. What I've said in prior posts will come to pass. I don't know why you all seem to think it will never happen. I'm not sayin' it's going to happen tomorrow, I'm saying 10 - 15 years from now.

[nelson]

LOL, you can say that again. He has basically come out and belittled every single person who has purchased Transformers on HD DVD.

No, what Bay has been critical of is of BAD corporate decisions on behalf of Paramount and Microsoft.

You guys are so full of it that you make it seem like he killed you cats.

To be honest I really have not seen this kind of behavior coming from a well renowned and respected director before and I am with you 100%. Reading this crap just makes me feel like a jackass for actually spending my hard earned money on his film instead of simply downloading the HD version. The next time I see a Michal Bay film on the store shelves I will absolutely remember these kinds of comments and his overall respect, or should I say disrespect, for people that dont share the same opinion regarding home theatre equipment..

The next time you should maybe make wiser decision and probably buy somehting good.

What you guys did is the equivalent of buying in the Microsoft Zune hype instead of the higher quality Apple iPod.

[nelson]

Isn't it interesting how bluray is considered "superior", when HD DVD audio quality regularly trashes the equivalent bluray discs and how there have been many more instances of defective bluray discs than HD DVD ones?

The only advantage that the Sony drones had was the larger capacity of the initial single layer and double layer discs, 25GB vs. 15GB and 50GB vs. 30GB. Once the HD DVD forum approved the 51GB discs, the formats' capabilities and capacities were essentially identical.

When the studios start releasing quality movies in HD, such as those issued by Criterion, I'll consider a HD machine. Until such time, you can keep the so-called Hollywood blockbusters - they're beyond boring.

Roberta

[Johnny LaPhlegm]

Both The Island, and Transformers are very underwhelming sound wise. Only carrying a Dolby Digital Plus audio track for a Michael Bay film just doesn't cut it. Maybe for Animal House, or the 1000th release of Army of Darkness - but for a Michael Bay film we need Dolby TrueHD, or better, DTS Master Audio.

Look I totally appreciate the fact that Blu-Ray's storage capacity and bandwidth has the potential for superior audio and video. But to call the Dolby Digital Plus track on Transformers "underwhelming" is just plain wrong. The audio on the HD DVD has won numerous awards, and one Hollywood sound mixer on the AVS forum (Filmmixer) called the DD+ track indistinguishable from the master. This is the guy that mixed the audio for We Were Soldiers- a reference level audio track on "just" DD+. Don't confuse specs with quality.

[subtitles]

Look I totally appreciate the fact that Blu-Ray's storage capacity and bandwidth has the potential for superior audio and video. But to call the Dolby Digital Plus track on Transformers "underwhelming" is just plain wrong. The audio on the HD DVD has won numerous awards, and one Hollywood sound mixer on the AVS forum (Filmmixer) called the DD+ track indistinguishable from the master. This is the guy that mixed the audio for We Were Soldiers- a reference level audio track on "just" DD+. Don't confuse specs with quality.

I disagree. Specs have nothing to do with it ...any of the other audio codecs I mentioned have more realism, more punch, and more bottom hands down.

Volume wise, to achieve the kind of sound stage I want with DD+, I have to set my receiver to 19. DTS-MA 16, and PCM 13 - its just that loud.

I'm not bashing DD+, its why I buy Warner Bros. titles on HD DVD at moment (Superman/Superman II), but again - with the treatment Michael Bay's films have had - releasing with just Dolby Digital on DVD, and Dolby Digital Plus on HD DVD is the bare minimum for today's audio.

[The Oncoming Storm]

What you guys did is the equivalent of buying in the Microsoft Zune hype instead of the higher quality Apple iPod.

Nelson, I had a glimmer of a smile from your posts until I read this...

You're an ipod supporter? Supporting ipods and the stripped down itunes program is exactly like supporting hd dvd. sure its got some bells and whistles but its stripped down (HD DVD lacks space for Transformers high def soundtrack/Itunes tracks are recorded at a laughable 128kbps, hd dvd has interactivity and pip/ipods have a lot of flash and no bang, hd dvd is only available from toshiba, really/itunes is the program we are forced to use with an ipod)

All joking aside, I really hope if this is indeed the nail in the coffin, we get a deluxe redux of tformers on bluray. Im format neutral but cant stand the fact that bluray cant even decide on a standard, let alone get their movies working universally. the fact that bdjava crashes most players, and profile 1.1 support (and the eventual 2.0) will be missing from all of the early adopters players is unfortunate and scary from a consumers side. do i really want to support a format that keeps changing and still wins a war? how do i know when to plunk $400 down on a player? How do I know they won't just revise the format again and I'll be stuck with a hell of a paperweight?

All I know is that this entire war was a joke. A single movie should not have been released until a uniform format that is 100% complete was decided on. This whole war has hurt consumers more than it has helped.

I have a 1080p 50" pioneer that i have been watching br and hddvd on, and i can honestly say i wish i held off on buying any of these formats until the war was over and bluray figured out exactly how to make their movies work on their own players correctly.

[nelson]

Nelson, I had a glimmer of a smile from your posts until I read this...

You're an ipod supporter? Supporting ipods and the stripped down itunes program is exactly like supporting hd dvd.

Supporting iPods/iTunes (the market leader) is nothing like supporting Toshiba/Microsoft's failed HD-DVD. iPods are can play just about every audio file (except WMV and Real--which both suck---and OGG---which only 4 people on earth use) and are easy to use and elegantly designed.

[nelson]

All I know is that this entire war was a joke. A single movie should not have been released until a uniform format that is 100% complete was decided on. This whole war has hurt consumers more than it has helped.
.

Not really, since people bought it voluntarily. And most people that can afford a $1500 TV are not in that bad of a financial bind or shouldn't be.

I say there always has to be an alternative in the beginning so that we can see which is better, and let the better product win. Competition is good.

[vaajtswv]

HD-DVD's disk attach rate blows away bluray's attach rate. It's clear that movie consumers that are choosing movies are choosing hd-dvd. Indeed, bluray's attach rates are kind of pathetic.

Please, stop bringing up attachment rate.

Tell me which is more profittable. A 10% attachment rate on 100 players or a 100% attachment on 2 players.

[Trigger Mike]

For those of you attacking Bay & Nelson for being Blu-ray fanboys, you should probably know that they both own HD DVD (or, at least, did own it at one point).

We're all entitled to our own opinions and post them everyday on this here forum. Why should Michael or Nelson be any different?

I don't have a personal attachment to Toshiba/Microsoft or Sony/Panasonic/Sharp/Pioneer/Apple et al. I invested in Blu-ray from the start because I thought it had the best chance of long term survival and, at the end of the day, I want ONE high definition format.

Let's stop all this petty and immature crap. If you absolutely must continue to attack people, please do it through private messages.

Thanks.

[Houston2007]

Well OK Michael you right. I said it now, do me a favor put Transformers on Blu-Ray with DTS HD Master Audio if you can't do that then either or both Dolby TrueHD and or PCM Uncompressed Audio.

[IMT Guyver]

I got the HD add on to the Xbox360 JUST FOR THE TF MOVIE.
Now i can look forward to seeing TF on Blu-ray 1 day i hope sooner or later.

I got the ps3 for the Blu-ray and some games but mainly for the movies there some many more film titles out there on BD than HD.

Like it has been said be4 we all have rights to make choices and i respeact that. Just becouse some person likes somthing diffrent to me DON'T MEAN I DON'T LIKE them or there choice.

To me why would you wan't to make it a personal attack on someone who likes diffrent things. I will say at times some thing get said or taken the wrong way.

So if i have put anying thing down and it has been taken as a personal attack on Mr Bay,Trigger Mike,Nelson or anyone esle on this forum i'm sorry.

[dobyblue]

Both have similar incredible picture quality except HD-DVD has actually been delivering on the interactivity, network and picture in picture features originally promised by these formats since day one whereas Blu Ray hasn't been. So how exactly is Blu Ray better?

With over three times as many titles featuring lossless audio, it's no secret that Blu-ray is the better format for the pure appreciation of watching a movie.

[dobyblue]

Reading this crap just makes me feel like a jackass

It's pretty well known that you are, so I wouldn't worry about it!

[dobyblue]

Hello,

For Michael Bay's films in High Def- well its just like his DVDs - I go where I can for the best.

At the moment we have -

The Rock: Blu-Ray
Pearl Harbor: Blu-Ray
The Island: HD-DVD (Europe)
Transformers: HD-DVD

Both The Island, and Transformers are very underwhelming sound wise.

The Island in Europe is from Warner and is available on both Blu-ray and HD DVD with no region coding on either.

The sound is underwhelming on the Blu-ray too, as is the PQ.

Hopefully when Dreamworks releases it here in North America they will use AVC and PCM and it will be much better.

There's no doubt that Paramount and Dreamworks and Universal will all be announcing support for Blu-ray within the next few months, if not next week.

[Mobe1969]

There's no doubt that Paramount and Dreamworks and Universal will all be announcing support for Blu-ray within the next few months, if not next week.

I suspect it might wait for Toshiba to make a move.