Blu-Ray Bay

[Mericalis]

Its also important to note that a few dual format releases have used different codecs with the BD version usually using AVC and the HD DVD version using VC-1

Hmm, then how do you explain everyone raving over the Santa Clause 3 using VC-1? With the higher bitrate (which HD DVD cannot do) that they put on that film, it has been stated by more than one source that it is better quality than the HD DVD films that use the same codec. Sorry friend, I'm still not buying what you are saying.

[OrangeCrush]

Okay both formats have it's high PQ titles and I understand that both BD/HD-DVD players can play all three codecs (MPEG-4, MPEG-2 & VC-1). What Bay is saying is that when Transformers do come out on Blu-ray, it's going to look better due to higher bandwidth for video codec which he's right.

LOL, well again considering there is zero evidence out there that suggests that BD is even capable of doing that I would love to know how Michael Bay can say something like that. You think higher bit rate numbers on paper equate to a visual difference that the human eye can percieve and that is where your leap of faith is a problem. Again there is zero evidence out there to suggest that the bit rate difference between HD DVD and BD will actually equate to a visual difference that can be seen with the human eye. Sure it might be better on paper but what is on paper and what happens in reality are two different things. The human eye and human ears have limits to what they can hear and what they can see so again better on paper does not necessarily mean that your actually going to be able to perceive the difference.

Considering I have yet to see a single title put out by Blu ray that has been better than what HD DVD's 5 star efforts have produced, sorry but I need real worl proof before I buy into anything like this and I am sorry but there is no real world proof for this claim. Just numbers on paper.

[OrangeCrush]

Hmm, then how do you explain everyone raving over the Santa Clause 3 using VC-1? With the higher bitrate (which HD DVD cannot do) that they put on that film, it has been stated by more than one source that it is better quality than the HD DVD films that use the same codec. Sorry friend, I'm still not buying what you are saying.

Sorry friend but once again unless your the encoder you have no clue why there is a difference in picture quality. It doesnt matter if its the same codec or not. The difference in visual quality could be because of something as simple as tweaking some settings on the encoder. The truth is you have no clue why its visually different from the HD DVD version and until the encoder comes out and explains why its different you can claim stuff until your blue in the face and it means nothing as it will always be 100% speculation.

[Mericalis]

Considering I have yet to see a single title put out by Blu ray that has been better than what HD DVD's 5 star efforts have produced, sorry but I need real worl proof before I buy into anything like this and I am sorry but there is no real world proof for this claim. Just numbers on paper.

Sorry, again I will point to Nature's Journey as a major topic here. The main reason it's a better film is the higher bandwidth...

HD-DVD
• VC-1 Encode at 26 Mbps / 1080i @ 29.97

Blu-ray DIsc
• VC-1 Encode at 37 Mbps / 1080i @ 29.97

It was played on the same screen when it was viewed, so it wasn't the modulation of the TV...and so, that either leaves the player or the transfer. So, you'd have to be saying that the Blu-ray player was better or the transfer was better (whether by tweaking or bandwith).

[KSaber]

You think higher bit rate numbers on paper equate to a visual difference that the human eye can percieve and that is where your leap of faith is a problem.

Uhmmmm YES! People who are very detailed and sensitive about PQ will be able to tell the difference. Now if the average joe was to look at it, probably not. I want the best and the highest quality possible and why should I have to settle for less because of HD-DVD??

BTW: I thought you were going to hit the sack, guess you can't let this go huh! LOL!! I would say you're a HD-DVD fanboy because normally they go out of there way defending every way possible for their precious format.

[Mericalis]

I'm getting bored here doing this...it's been fun, but OrangeCrush, you aren't going to win and there's no use in continuing this discussion. Nelson, just foget about this person and get some rest.

[Mericalis]

Uhmmmm YES! People who are very detailed and sensitive about PQ will be able to tell the difference. Now if the average joe was to look at it, probably not. I want the best and the highest quality possible and why should I have to settle for less because of HD-DVD??

BTW: I thought you were going to hit the sack, guess you can't let this go huh! LOL!! I would say you're a HD-DVD fanboy because normally they go out of there way defending every way possible for their precious format.

Saber, good luck in this one, he is definitely a Fanboy...and he still hasn't said anything about Ratatouille, which has had the highest PQ/AQ out there so far...including TF (sorry Mr. Bay).

[OrangeCrush]

Sorry, again I will point to Nature's Journey as a major topic here. The main reason it's a better film is the higher bandwidth...

HD-DVD
• VC-1 Encode at 26 Mbps / 1080i @ 29.97

Blu-ray DIsc
• VC-1 Encode at 37 Mbps / 1080i @ 29.97

It was played on the same screen when it was viewed, so it wasn't the modulation of the TV...and so, that either leaves the player or the transfer. So, you'd have to be saying that the Blu-ray player was better or the transfer was better (whether by tweaking or bandwith).

You just said it right there, the transfer. Until the people who made the transfers come out and explain what, if any, changes were made in regards to the trasnfer you have no clue wether or not the difference in visual quality is due to something the encoders did, wether or not it was the increased Bit Rate or wether it was due to limitations on the HD DVD side.

[OrangeCrush]

Saber, good luck in this one, he is definitely a Fanboy...and he still hasn't said anything about Ratatouille, which has had the highest PQ/AQ out there so far...including TF (sorry Mr. Bay).

Oh god I cant even believe you would try and use an animation title, LOL.

I am outta here for tonite. By all means go out and find that title that has a picture quality that is above anything HD DVD has done thus far and then well talk some more. As is everything you guys are saying is 100% speculation and HD DVD's 5 star titles look just as good as BD's 5 star titles.

[KSaber]

Saber, good luck in this one, he is definitely a Fanboy...and he still hasn't said anything about Ratatouille, which has had the highest PQ/AQ out there so far...including TF (sorry Mr. Bay).

Yeah no kidding. He's clouded his judgement by his fanboyism...

[Mericalis]

You just said it right there, the transfer. Until the people who made the transfers come out and explain what, if any, changes were made in regards to the trasnfer you have no clue wether or not the difference in visual quality is due to something the encoders did, wether or not it was the increased Bit Rate or wether it was due to limitations on the HD DVD side.

Yada...yada...yada, the only difference has been stated before by Mr. Casey himself...it's the bitrate. He walked it through the process many times on HDD and he still gets beat on continuously because of it.

[Mericalis]

Oh god I cant even believe you would try and use an animation title, LOL.

It's because I got you on that one...And animation is just as important as real-life in this instance. You are just throwing it out there to make yourself look good.

Have a good sleep.

[RangerSix]

Saber, good luck in this one, he is definitely a Fanboy...and he still hasn't said anything about Ratatouille, which has had the highest PQ/AQ out there so far...including TF (sorry Mr. Bay).

You could show OrangeCrush a 1000 different examples of superior video comparisons and he would still refuse to believe it. It's his ego now that refuses to concede and nothing any of us writes will change that.

[Mericalis]

You could show OrangeCrush a 1000 different examples of superior video comparisons and he would still refuse to believe it. It's his ego now that refuses to concede and nothing any of us writes will change that.

I know, I know...

But again, Mr. Bay, you are completely correct that you should know what looks best on what and I hope to see it soon in Blu-ray as I'm planning on picking it up as a double-dip. I had to get the standard version when it first came out so that I could at least watch it. (Want to include that it was only one of three I have picked up since I've switched to Hi-Def, so you should feel good.) I have seen it on HD at a friend's home and I hope that it will look much better on Blu-ray.

[Mericalis]

Nelson, before I go I want to also apologize as we brought a lot of stuff in that had nothing to do with Mr. Bay,Transformers or any of his other work. I hope you will forgive us.

[KSaber]

But again, Mr. Bay, you are completely correct that you should know what looks best on what and I hope to see it soon in Blu-ray as I'm planning on picking it up as a double-dip. I had to get the standard version when it first came out so that I could at least watch it. (Want to include that it was only one of three I have picked up since I've switched to Hi-Def, so you should feel good.) I have seen it on HD at a friend's home and I hope that it will look much better on Blu-ray.

I would not say Transformers would be much better on Blu-ray because it does look good on HD-DVD but it will be better on Blu-ray.

Good-nite

[Mobe1969]

I don't doubt Michael Bay's eye for color, and can understand on the comparison with the Nature documentary with the Blu Ray having higher bitrate to the HDDVD release. But if they are both identical encodes, just on different media, I can't see how it could be different - other than maybe read errors?

[Mericalis]

I don't doubt Michael Bay's eye for color, and can understand on the comparison with the Nature documentary with the Blu Ray having higher bitrate to the HDDVD release. But if they are both identical encodes, just on different media, I can't see how it could be different - other than maybe read errors?

Here's a quote from someone with more expertise than I have in this matter. Besides, I shouldn't be up right now (time-wise) and I should really be in the bed because I'm on the sick side.

"BDs can assign more bits to the video and audio (for example 40 Mb/s to video, 48 Mb/s to audio + video) therefore the image and the audio can have more information and be truer (have higher fidelity) to the source."

I'll let that be the final word I say tonight, because I am not cognitive enough to continue. Maybe I can direct someone else over here that is a more experienced member of this forum later on to answer that question.

[TheTenth]

Michael Bay is an idiot. I can't think of a good movie he's even directed. On top of that he is clueless, and based on the grammar in his posts I don't think he passed the tenth grade. He has no clue about what format Transformers would look better on. How do I know that? Because it's never been released on Blu-ray. Therefore, he's never seen it on Blu-ray. Therefore he's an idiot, who probably owns stock in Sony. Anybody who believes one word that comes out of this incompetent retards mouth deserves to be shot along with him.

Hmm .. what to say to that?
I'm not sure you can understand the word "psychiatrist" but you sure need to see one. Perhaps you know Pearl Harbor and The Rock have been released on Blu-ray and he saw them? And maybe Transformers was ready to be released on Blu-ray and he got a copy before Paramount was paid to become Blu-ray?
Of course Mr. Bay would have access to more products (even if it was only a beta) and information than an average guy like you.

[neilrieck]

Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!

Bay

Blu-ray is better in only one area: it currently has a slightly larger storage size. Blu-ray and HD-DVD are just disc storage technologies (just as Ethernet and Token Ring are just network technologies). Any viewable differences are a result of video encoding parameters selected prior to media stamping.

[DealsR4theDevil]

I know the look, color, and sounds on my own movies better they anyone in the world. I color-time every single image, and am there for every single audio tweak. I see my films in the editing and final process no less then a 100 times. I know ever single nuance. For some dick wads on these posts who think I can't make an informed choice on what format in the end, has the truer results for my own films. Well you where to shove.... My films finished in Blu-Ray are better - more true. Hd is better than DVD, but just not as good as Blu-Ray. So buying a Transformers Hd is still the best you will see this movie as of today. But when Paramount caves for Blu-Ray in the future - This will happen, then you will see Transformers one day finished in Blu-Ray and I will sure be able to tell the difference.

Bay

Now this is a Director!! To quote Homer Simpson "Ten Thumbs Up!!!"

[dobyblue]

I don't doubt Michael Bay's eye for color, and can understand on the comparison with the Nature documentary with the Blu Ray having higher bitrate to the HDDVD release. But if they are both identical encodes, just on different media, I can't see how it could be different - other than maybe read errors?

The encodes for Nature's Journey are not identical - the Blu-ray version is better as it is closer to the source.

Richard optimized each disc to its maximum potential - with 60% more bandwidth you don't need a PHD to realise that the Blu-ray version would be closer to the original. Not only that but the Blu-ray manages to have a lossless audio track thanks to the extra 8 Mbps bandwidth above and beyond the video's maximum bitrate.

It's the same with the Nine Inch Nails release of "Beside you in Time" - technoguru and director Rob Sheridan even states in the HD FAQ that the Blu-ray would have better PQ than the HD DVD because of the advantages in bandwidth.

When Transformers comes out on Blu-ray, likely in time for this Christmas, you can compare it yourself and you'll see the difference. If they had come out at the same time, it would have been the Blu-ray version that would have won the HD 2.0 conference's award for best audio, hand's down.

I look forward to it very much.

In the meantime I get to enjoy some high bitrate AVC encodes of Bay's movies with lossless audio, encoded by the wizards at Panasonic. You haven't seen Pearl Harbor until you've seen it on Blu.

And tomorrow I can pick up The Rock as well!

[dobyblue]

Paramount maybe. I suspect Universal will hang on to the bitter end. If WB and Fox had gone with HD DVD, I wouldn't have expected Disney and Sony to just give up a week later either.

If Warner and Fox went, I would have expected Disney to go quite quickly thereafter. Sony would have taken longer.

However I have seen no credible source to suggest that Fox were considering going to HD DVD and the timeline is completely illogical. Fox were busy working on BD+ when Warner's talks with the BDA began in earnest - it sounds like more propaganda from the HD DVD camp if you ask me.

Universal do not release hardware - it is completely incongruent to suggest they are anywhere near in the same boat as Sony when it comes to picking sides.

Gates keynote speech last night didn't mention HD DVD once!

Universal will have no problem releasing on Blu. If Toshiba owned Uni, it might be a different story. I expect an announcement before Summer.

[nelson]

are your fans really dick wads? I see you edited your original post. Thats a lot of contempt for people that ultimately put food on your table. Seems to me you change your position more than Hillary Clinton depending on which way the wind blows. I don't see how anyone could think you have any credibility and no other motive than lining your pockets by siding with whatever format is in the lead. .

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/884

I think the ones that are questioning his eye for images and have come here to troll are dickwads. Period. Most of them have no idea what they're talking about.

If you think that statement meant he supported HD DVD, you're a moron. He was basically owning up to the studio while not agreeing with the studios decision.

[nelson]

Is Bay drinking again?

Are you trolling again?