Plot holes from the first 2 movies never resolved

[Grafx]

Will they be resolved in this movie? I just watched the first 2 over again.

TF:1
-Barricade on the highway and disappears and was never seen again till this day
-The cube could fix/repair the decepticon in the cube chamber at Sector 7 who free'd Mega but the cube couldnt bring Jazz or Bumblebee back to full heath, nor optimus

TF:2
-Autobots missing after the end of the TF2
-Bonecrusher returns after he was killed in the desert
-Jolt was never used properly
-Ratchet and ironhide barely got any screen time
-Bumblebee loses his voice again and never gets it back
-President wanting autobots to leave earth was never brought back up again
-Rest of the primes
-The cube sliver disappeared after it was used on Jetfire

and the most annoying...
-The cube / cube slivers STILL only produce bad decepticons. WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN EXPLAINED IN 2 MOVIES?



Ratchet is a medical officer, but you don't seem him at all, nor does he repair anything, or fix BB's voice. He just lose his role.


Ya thats my gripes. Hopefully the autobots are less "fail" in this one. k bye

[boudie13]

in the first movie, I remember something being explained that the cube creates life, but in it's raw form...the autobots learned over time to not be hostile (except to decepticons)...correct me if I'm wrong please

[TIMtationX]

Will they be resolved in this movie? I just watched the first 2 over again.

TF:1
-Barricade on the highway and disappears and was never seen again till this day
-The cube could fix/repair the decepticon in the cube chamber at Sector 7 who free'd Mega but the cube couldnt bring Jazz or Bumblebee back to full heath, nor optimus

TF:2
-Autobots missing after the end of the TF2
-Bonecrusher returns after he was killed in the desert
-Jolt was never used properly
-Ratchet and ironhide barely got any screen time
-Bumblebee loses his voice again and never gets it back
-President wanting autobots to leave earth was never brought back up again
-Rest of the primes
-The cube sliver disappeared after it was used on Jetfire

and the most annoying...
-The cube / cube slivers STILL only produce bad decepticons. WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN EXPLAINED IN 2 MOVIES?



Ratchet is a medical officer, but you don't seem him at all, nor does he repair anything, or fix BB's voice. He just lose his role.


Ya thats my gripes. Hopefully the autobots are less "fail" in this one. k bye

Did you come up with these all by yourself?

[fu2kimus_prime]

Will they be resolved in this movie? I just watched the first 2 over again.

TF:1
-Barricade on the highway and disappears and was never seen again till this day
-The cube could fix/repair the decepticon in the cube chamber at Sector 7 who free'd Mega but the cube couldnt bring Jazz or Bumblebee back to full heath, nor optimus

TF:2
-Autobots missing after the end of the TF2
-Bonecrusher returns after he was killed in the desert
-Jolt was never used properly
-Ratchet and ironhide barely got any screen time
-Bumblebee loses his voice again and never gets it back
-President wanting autobots to leave earth was never brought back up again
-Rest of the primes
-The cube sliver disappeared after it was used on Jetfire

and the most annoying...
-The cube / cube slivers STILL only produce bad decepticons. WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN EXPLAINED IN 2 MOVIES?



Ratchet is a medical officer, but you don't seem him at all, nor does he repair anything, or fix BB's voice. He just lose his role.


Ya thats my gripes. Hopefully the autobots are less "fail" in this one. k bye

I believe I can have a good stab at these!

TF1

1: The writers said Barricades fate is left open for future movies.
2: I'll give you this one, I'm sure someone will come up with something though.

TF2:

1: Who was missing? You don't need to see every character to know they survived.
2: Just a drone, very much like the Blackout model was used as a grunt in the forest fight.
3: Jolt's scenes were brief but he did do a very important job.
4: Not a plot hole, it's a creative decision.
5: Sam says he's "playing it up" but it's obvious he's still having problems, and Sam is just being abit of a jerk because his house just got wrecked.
6: The Autobots do save the day in the end, and this plot looks like it won't go away in DOTM.
7: What about them?
8: It appears that slivers of the cube are a one time use kind of thing, the one used on Megatron is never seen again either.

[Jennar]

They said in TF1 that all or earths technology was reverse engineered from Megatron. It stands to reason that any technology granted sentience by the cube would be evil like Megatron.

[Crainy]

Will they be resolved in this movie? I just watched the first 2 over again.

TF:1
-Barricade on the highway and disappears and was never seen again till this day
-The cube could fix/repair the decepticon in the cube chamber at Sector 7 who free'd Mega but the cube couldnt bring Jazz or Bumblebee back to full heath, nor optimus

TF:2
-Autobots missing after the end of the TF2
-Bonecrusher returns after he was killed in the desert
-Jolt was never used properly
-Ratchet and ironhide barely got any screen time
-Bumblebee loses his voice again and never gets it back
-President wanting autobots to leave earth was never brought back up again
-Rest of the primes
-The cube sliver disappeared after it was used on Jetfire

and the most annoying...
-The cube / cube slivers STILL only produce bad decepticons. WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN EXPLAINED IN 2 MOVIES?



Ratchet is a medical officer, but you don't seem him at all, nor does he repair anything, or fix BB's voice. He just lose his role.


Ya thats my gripes. Hopefully the autobots are less "fail" in this one. k bye

Wow, there are alot of things that can be brought up to be a plot hole, expecially in TF2, but you brought up the stupidests things. Ok, lets break this down:

TF1:
1. Yeah, thats a plot hole.
2. Well, there a bit of a size difference between frenzy and the others, so that would probably be it.

TF2:
1. We dont need to see every autobot to know that they survived.
2. A regular drone, it is common that drones are build after succesfull models.
3. Not a plot hole, and he did have one important part.
4. Not a plot hole, but a creative decision.
5. Who says he ever got his voice really back? Sure he could talk a little at the end of TF1, but that was mainly because he had a BIG motivation to speak. He talks a little in TF2.
6. What? That was the whole plot of the movie. They couldnt get the autobots to leave, but they shutted down N.E.S.T and tried to make a deal with the decepticons.
7. What?
8. I could be absorbed. We never see the bigger shard either.

and the most annoying...
Isnt i obvious? When you create live, but dont give it any kind of knowledge, it WILL act hostile to everything in sight because its fearing everything in sight. The cube does not create decepticons, but basic living creatures, and the basic living creature is hostile to everyone.

[Sam Nickelson]

nothin against Bay but I find it funny that the biggest hole hasn't been brought up.

correct me if I'm wrong but over half of ROTF was not needed because Mikaela had the sliver the whole time and they could have used it to resurrect Prime instead of Bee, The Twins, Leo, Simmons, Shia, Mikaela, and Wheelie going to Egypt. Looking for the Matrix

[Shadow]

nothin against Bay but I find it funny that the biggest hole hasn't been brought up.

correct me if I'm wrong but over half of ROTF was not needed because Mikaela had the sliver the whole time and they could have used it to resurrect Prime instead of Bee, The Twins, Leo, Simmons, Shia, Mikaela, and Wheelie going to Egypt. Looking for the Matrix

You are right. The decepticons used a piece of the AllSpark to bring back Megatron and Sam could have used the piece Mikaela had to bring back Prime but then they would not have had the piece to awaken Jetfire and they needed to wake a Seeker to find the Matrix because at this point Prime was already dead and Sam knew that the decepticons were looking for the Matrix. Finding the Matrix before the decepticons was more important than bringing Prime back at the time and Sam only thought of using the Matrix to bring Prime back as a afterthought after getting the back story of the Matrix from Jetfire. So yes he could have used the piece of the AllSpark to bring Prime back but than Jetfire would not have been awoken and they would never have found the general location of the Matrix.

[Sam Nickelson]

Sam knew that the decepticons were looking for the Matrix. Finding the Matrix before the decepticons was more important than bringing Prime back at the time and Sam only thought of using the Matrix to bring Prime back as a afterthought after getting the back story of the Matrix from Jetfire. So yes he could have used the piece of the AllSpark to bring Prime back but than Jetfire would not have been awoken and they would never have found the general location of the Matrix.[/QUOTE]

actually they didn't know bout the matrix

[rocketrichard78]

The reason why the cube radiation creates what seems to be decepticon bots is because human technology has been reversed engineered from Megatron. So everything that has been essentially reversed engineered from Megs once expose to the cube radiation, would be a part of him being revitalized. My theory

[CesarCardoso]

The reason why the cube radiation creates what seems to be decepticon bots is because human technology has been reversed engineered from Megatron. So everything that has been essentially reversed engineered from Megs once expose to the cube radiation, would be a part of him being revitalized. My theory

That cant be right. i mean, just because you base yourself on a model, doesnt mean you transfer some sort of essence to you creation. Most robots nowadays are based on biological models, and that doesnt mean they can reproduce, or eat.

I agree with the theory that after being created, the new transformers are ignorant to their surroundings and respond in hostility as a defensive mechanism.

[Shadow]

That cant be right. i mean, just because you base yourself on a model, doesnt mean you transfer some sort of essence to you creation. Most robots nowadays are based on biological models, and that doesnt mean they can reproduce, or eat.

I agree with the theory that after being created, the new transformers are ignorant to their surroundings and respond in hostility as a defensive mechanism.

He is right...like simmons said in the first movie... everything you see, all our tech is based off of tech we got from Megs and Megs was corrupted by dark forces so some part of him does kind of linger in our tech and once the AllSparks power turned something into a bot, in essence it was evil because of this. The same thing happened in transformers animated when Megs had the doc make the Dinobots based on his tech. Once they went active they were in essence evil and Megs could control them.

[Crainy]

nothin against Bay but I find it funny that the biggest hole hasn't been brought up.

correct me if I'm wrong but over half of ROTF was not needed because Mikaela had the sliver the whole time and they could have used it to resurrect Prime instead of Bee, The Twins, Leo, Simmons, Shia, Mikaela, and Wheelie going to Egypt. Looking for the Matrix

Wrong. First, the splitter was WAY smaller than the one they used on megatron, also, theres another little detail you should considere: Sam had no clue that the Allspark could do that, he didnt know how Megs was brought back to live. The only thing he ever saw the allspark do was to KILL an enemy.

[Shadow]

Wrong. First, the splitter was WAY smaller than the one they used on megatron, also, theres another little detail you should considere: Sam had no clue that the Allspark could do that, he didnt know how Megs was brought back to live. The only thing he ever saw the allspark do was to KILL an enemy.

Im sure Sam put two and two together after talking to Prime in the cemitary and Prime told him the Decepticons took the Cube splinter and then all of a sudden Megatron was alive again. And im sure the size of the spinter has nothing to do with if it can or cant bring a bot back to life. Im sure the smaller part that Sam had could have brought Megs back just the same.

[CesarCardoso]

He is right...like simmons said in the first movie... everything you see, all our tech is based off of tech we got from Megs and Megs was corrupted by dark forces so some part of him does kind of linger in our tech and once the AllSparks power turned something into a bot, in essence it was evil because of this. The same thing happened in transformers animated when Megs had the doc make the Dinobots based on his tech. Once they went active they were in essence evil and Megs could control them.

that makes no sense to me. I mean, if i look at a building that happens to be a bank, and build my house based on that bank building, does that mean my house will become a bank? A prosthetic hand is based on human hands and can even move like a human hand, but does it feel? can it distiguish heat from cold? i dont agree with you

[alexsm]

If your house where based in alien bank living technology, and you fill them with alien energy, it may become a bank

[Shadow]

that makes no sense to me. I mean, if i look at a building that happens to be a bank, and build my house based on that bank building, does that mean my house will become a bank? A prosthetic hand is based on human hands and can even move like a human hand, but does it feel? can it distiguish heat from cold? i dont agree with you

The thing is... almost all out tech now is based off of nano-tech or other tech that makes itself self aware. In the TF movies like in real life most of our tech comes from the military or other companies that work for the military. In the TFs movies we got our ability to create nano-tech and things like this from Megatron's tech that we took from him. So if take that tech, copy it and us it for other things... in essence that tech is still Megatron's tech, just copied. So once the AllSpark's energy comes in contact with that tech, it turns evil.

[CesarCardoso]

If your house where based in alien bank living technology, and you fill them with alien energy, it may become a bank

lol

but even today we wouldnt have the means to mimic cybertronian technology. When they said that earths tech was reverse engeneered from Megatron, i understood it in the sense of design. Kinda like the physics and the electronics. if we had been capable of copying nanotech from megatron our present day tech would be way more advanced than it is.

So i still hold on to my argument.

[CesarCardoso]

The thing is... almost all out tech now is based off of nano-tech or other tech that makes itself self aware. In the TF movies like in real life most of our tech comes from the military or other companies that work for the military. In the TFs movies we got our ability to create nano-tech and things like this from Megatron's tech that we took from him. So if take that tech, copy it and us it for other things... in essence that tech is still Megatron's tech, just copied. So once the AllSpark's energy comes in contact with that tech, it turns evil.

so your saying that IF we took Napoleon's, or Hitlers dna and cloned him, but raised the clone just like any other kind, they would still be evil?

I understand that Megatron has diferent views as to how to rule and controle, but i doubt that it is so enrooted in him as to say, "If i copy his leg, i will create an evil leg!" Megatron chose his path. To say it is as inherent to him as is our DNA is to us, is to say Mass murderes are like that because of genetics.

I know i used some heavy examples but i think they help ilustrate what i mean.

[Shadow]

so your saying that IF we took Napoleon's, or Hitlers dna and cloned him, but raised the clone just like any other kind, they would still be evil?

I understand that Megatron has diferent views as to how to rule and controle, but i doubt that it is so enrooted in him as to say, "If i copy his leg, i will create an evil leg!" Megatron chose his path. To say it is as inherent to him as is our DNA is to us, is to say Mass murderes are like that because of genetics.

I know i used some heavy examples but i think they help ilustrate what i mean.

Megatron did choose his own path and that was to bring about a better Cybertron by means of force and terror. However... his dark upbringing didnt take its true form until he was corrupted by The Fallen by using Dark Energon which is the life essence of Unicron. As for Napoleon and Hitler... lets not get into real history here. Anyway So as for Megatron's essence being evil... it is just that not because Megs is evil but his Spark and essence is corrupted now. And as for our tech in the movie and in real life... our government has had nano-tech for many many years now. Our government(real life) has just let out that they now have transforming paper-like metal that thinks on its own and can transform into things like paper-like boats and planes and can be used for spy-like operations. We even have Military equipment that thinks and operates on its own and learns. If we were to put these two types of tech together we are well on our way of having real transformers in the future.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...-9TutA&cad=rja

[Shadow]

lol

but even today we wouldnt have the means to mimic cybertronian technology. When they said that earths tech was reverse engeneered from Megatron, i understood it in the sense of design. Kinda like the physics and the electronics. if we had been capable of copying nanotech from megatron our present day tech would be way more advanced than it is.

So i still hold on to my argument.

how do you know out tech isnt more advanced than it is. What we see now is only what the government and military want us to see. You have to remember... all our tech that us common people know of that is released and is said to be new tech... really isnt. Its already many years old. Its just now being released to the general public as the military has no longer a use for it. The same could apply in the TFs movie verse. Also even though we dont see i in the movies, the comics already have us using cybertronian tech to make our own TFs and other things.

[alexsm]

I think the point is:

1) Writers never thought it was a problem, so never cared to give a deeper explanation

2) Evilness in Decepticons affects their internal structure. Even their eyes are different lol

I don't think anyone involved in Transformers (movies, books or series) ever cared to explain any of this things (energon, dark energon) in a proper way.

But you know... How the hell do Transformers live? They are not machines with artificial intelligence made by someone, they are living beings. How does a bunch of metal scraps, whires and plastic live? I think that is the biggest plot hole in the saga, and it won't be explained :lmao

[5 Star General]

What's funny about this thread and the cube and Meg and essence and sliver and matrix is that, the whole transformer thing is fiction and we're here trying to explain in the why's and how's---as if this whole TF universe is like the Milky way.....Fiction doesn't have to agree with the Physics/bio/chem of our world.....

Anyway---Maybe they could have used the splinter to resurrect optimus..and we wouldn't need all that desert fighting thing...but guess what Optimus should have destroyed it at the end of TF and we would even need Meg in TF-2..ravage wouldn't be needed in TF-2, nor the Doc...etc etc

[5 Star General]

I think the point is:

1) Writers never thought it was a problem, so never cared to give a deeper explanation

2) Evilness in Decepticons affects their internal structure. Even their eyes are different lol

I don't think anyone involved in Transformers (movies, books or series) ever cared to explain any of this things (energon, dark energon) in a proper way.

But you know... How the hell do Transformers live? They are not machines with artificial intelligence made by someone, they are living beings. How does a bunch of metal scraps, whires and plastic live? I think that is the biggest plot hole in the saga, and it won't be explained :lmao

Nope, the biggest is----" God made man in his own image. Who made him" -----

[CesarCardoso]

What's funny about this thread and the cube and Meg and essence and sliver and matrix is that, the whole transformer thing is fiction and we're here trying to explain in the why's and how's---as if this whole TF universe is like the Milky way.....Fiction doesn't have to agree with the Physics/bio/chem of our world.....

Anyway---Maybe they could have used the splinter to resurrect optimus..and we wouldn't need all that desert fighting thing...but guess what Optimus should have destroyed it at the end of TF and we would even need Meg in TF-2..ravage wouldn't be needed in TF-2, nor the Doc...etc etc

If that is your point of view, i will respect it, but these movies were designed to try to make theses characters believable. As soon as we start saying "oh, its fiction, who the hell cares how it happens" then we start accepting things like mass shifting. You lose the imersion. You stop believing it could be true.

I for one am happy that Bay tried his best to base this franchise in realism and am very happy to discuss these topics.