You are severely confused.Originally Posted by poothedrew
Take a .wav file - encode it at 96 Kbps.
Re-encode that .wav file at 320 Kbps.
Listen to them and compare.
Do you see?
Bandwidth has a very close relationship to quality. How someone can suggest otherwise is probably beyond everyone else posting here.
Microsoft responds...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12405162
No, all I'm asking is that no outside companies interfere..hence prolong this war. If the studio decide to support said format, so be it. But what sucks is that Toshiba (who doesn't have $150 million to be allocating to marketing, much less pay studios) all of the sudden gave P/DW $150 million out of the blue with no help from their biggest supporter.
Don't know if you were around for the VHS/Beta wars, but the formats fought amongst themselves without 3rd party "supporters" bribing studios.
HD DVD v. Blu Ray Just Does Not Matter
The format wars are a temporary problem...BluRay/HD DVD..it doesn't matter. All movies, (and TV) if they aren't already, will be available for download over the net in HD digitally. They will be easily downloaded and stored on your hard drive. I already do it with Xbox Marketplace and my HD Tivo. There are other options as well. The movies look great. It's no hassle, much cheaper than a DVD..and I don't have a bunch of DVD boxes cluttering up my screening room.
Consumers in more wired countries, like Korea, apparently don't use DVD's now at all..everything they want to watch, they download.
So, please quite crying about this HD vs. BluRay "war" ...they will both be gone, like vinyl records and 8 Track tapes, very, very soon.
Jim
Please, the movies downloaded from xBox Live look nowhere near as good as Blu-ray or HD-DVD disks.
Not everyone has high speed internet access capable of downloading those kinds of movies, especially in HD format.
Also...that would take a HUGE hard drive depending on how big of a movie fan you are.
So I don't think that will take off yet. The format war is here to stay for a while anyway.
Wow now that you used a really big font I agree with you! Do you use such a big font to compensate for your lack of critical thinking or something else?
The manufacturing costs are artificially levelled because Sony subsidises the start up costs for the manufacturer.
The physical media costs are still vastly different each BD disc is more expensive 50 to 70 cents not to dupe it or anything else just the disc.
HD-DVD based on DVD has taken advantage of the economy of scale the DVD provided giving a physical disc that is 2-4 cents to make. (NOT REPRODUCE)
It has to enter your thinking that the years of producing DVD’s and just walking into Best Buy looking at the DVD +-R prices falling to deduce that the disc based on this would be cheaper, it uses the same equipment same lasers etc.
http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/video/dvd-hdd-players-and-receivers/blu-ray-and-hd-dvd/news/why-hd-dvd-costs-less-than-blu-ray?articleid=985000801
And what about Sony & Blu Ray?
Mr. Bay,
What comments do you have regarding the fact that Sony also is working on integrating a Video download service, accessable by the Playstation 3? Additional, the fact that Sony alone has already made assertions that future iterations of the Playstation consle (only thing keeping blu ray alive) *WILL NOT* include *ANY* sort of optical media support. All game (and movie) content for the playstation 4 on forward would be downloaded.
Please note that Microsoft has never made any such asseristions ever. Also please take into account that HD DVD is the next generation optical format *OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED AND ENDORSED* by the DVD forum, while Blu Ray is a "bastard" format Sony created in order to reap as many royalties as they can.
You have so much FUD in that post I don't know where to begin. How could Sony get so many royalties when they don't even own all the Blu-ray patents?
Wow you've quoted an HD DVD spokesperson who works for Toshiba.
Sony does not subsidize anything for Panasonic - in fact we were ahead of Sony, releasing an AVC/MPEG-4 Blu-ray before they did. (Eight Below for Disney)
As for the font, if you bothered to click on the link to see what else Mr. Casey had to say you'd see I merely copied it.
You can take your foot out of your mouth anytime you want to.
Have you actually read anything here or did you just sign up to post this useless tidbit of completely non-factual information?
Compare the companies supporting Blu-ray and the ones supporting HD DVD and see which ones you recognize.
There are 17 patent holders in Blu-ray technology - only the most ignorant trolls would suggest otherwise and claim to still have any knowledge of what's happening with BD and HD DDV.
Is that the same guy who said that Blu-ray would never use anything other than BD25GB discs and MPEG-2?
I'm sure MS could make Bay's films look good at a private screening, but who wants to see a future where everyone has to wait for the Microsoft team to do all the encodes? not me. Amir even stated to Richard Casey that it would take their team to get the most out of VC-1 and that unless they were involved it would not look as good as it could.
That's not very promising.
notice how despite getting a 5 star rating on several sites Amir calls into question whether or not TF looked as good as it could thanks to MS not doing the VC-1 encode for them. Typical MS FUD.
Last edited by dobyblue; 12-05-2007 at 12:58 PM.
Which part is FUD?
Sony PS3 also has a video download service.. I guess you've never heard of PSN?
Sony has claimed PS4 will not have optical drive? In fact they did, caused a lot of discussion about why Sony would be dumb enough to snub retailers who lose money selling game console hardware.
HD DVD is officially supported by the DVD forum and Blu Ray isn't... Why is there no blu ray link of http://www.dvdforum.org/forum.shtml? If you could find it that would be great.
Sony collecting Blu Ray Royalties... Yes they do, last estimate I heard was $30/player. Sony is the founding member of the Blu Ray forum, and they are they have been the principal investors, developers and backers of the media.
I used to work with the guy who created the zip libraries we use today and I had a very similar coversation from a perspective not unlike yours. Where your analagy breaks down is you are using a fixed ecoding scheme "mp3". If I said mp3's encoded at a lower bit rate are no different in quality then I would be crazy.You are severely confused.
Take a .wav file - encode it at 96 Kbps.
Re-encode that .wav file at 320 Kbps.
Listen to them and compare.
Do you see?
Bandwidth has a very close relationship to quality. How someone can suggest otherwise is probably beyond everyone else posting here.
Here is an example. I have one black dot on a page of white. I could encode it by each line or the whole page. The difference would be staggering in terms of bit rate. Line 1 = 1420 white pixels etc line by line doing the same thing until we reached that one black pixel or I could ecode like this:
1079 White + 1(1419 white + 1 Black).
What would be the difference in quality?
You will notice is that these rates go down as the encoding gets better not the reverse. It's just like more code does not make a better program more efficient code does.
But the content of the Toshiba guy was not the thrust of my point which you convieniently ignored the discs are cheaper no logic in world can argue that.Wow you've quoted an HD DVD spokesperson who works for Toshiba.
Sony does not subsidize anything for Panasonic - in fact we were ahead of Sony, releasing an AVC/MPEG-4 Blu-ray before they did. (Eight Below for Disney)
As for the font, if you bothered to click on the link to see what else Mr. Casey had to say you'd see I merely copied it.
You can take your foot out of your mouth anytime you want to.
Learn how to format your fonts, using different type size and font changes the implied meaning of your posts. It leads people to believe you are attempting to be pedagoical with people when I am sure you are just trying to get your point across and not be demeaning.
I don't know why the "cheaper" angle is being even mention. No one here has any money vested in the studios or production companies.
What the "studios save" by going with HD-DVD is probably what they spend on take-out any given week (assuming that there are any savings).
Bean counters care and stock holders care and CEO's often make decisions based on their input. (im not one but they do)
Frankly if Star Wars came out next week on BD I would RUN not WALK to the nearest electronics store to get the cheapest PS3 I could buy.
Blu Ray vs. HD-DVD
Hello Michael,
Congrats on the release of Transformers on DVD and HD-DVD. I'm a digital encoding specialist. When I saw your post regarding your preference of Blu-ray over HD-DVD, I paused to think about your statement for a second but then I felt the need to set the record straight.
HD-DVD offers no difference between Blu-Ray in terms of picture quality. I myself, am a Blu-Ray supporter because I feel that the 20 gigs of extra space it provides will be useful in the future, especially when it comes to sound compression. For instance Blu-Rays can supports uncompressed PCM audio in several languages where as an HD-DVD usually cannot because of the space limitation.
That said, the picture quality is no different. A digital transfer is a digital transfer. Almost all Blu-Ray and HD-DVDs discs uses the VC-1 codec which looks identical. When I say identical I don't mean to the naked eye. I mean..byte for byte it's exactly the same. The only thing that can affect the quality from one format to the other is if the file is encoded using a more compressed VC-1 codec setting. Also if the transfer process from film is for some reason done of a lesser quality for one or the other. Often when I get a film that needs to be compressed for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, then I'm using the same digital transfer so that should never ever happen anyway.
If you wanted to make a case about the sound capacity difference then you'd certainly have a point. In terms of picture quality, if you're seeing a difference it's only in your mind or you're viewing a 1080i image instead of 1080p image from your HD-DVD player.
I hope that clears things up.
-Cal, New York, NY
The fact that it's a Toshiba rep supercedes any other point made in the article, because it's all based on what the Toshiba rep said.
The word of an actual studio releasing on both formats more than trumps what you're showing here as evidence to back up your claim.
As for your final points, this site allows you to copy formatting from other sites and the only reason I didn't change it was simply to save time.
What does pedagoical mean?
Wow, that's a mind-bogglingly dumb example.
Who cares what the DVD Forum has to say? All the major CE's are on the Blu-ray team with the exception of Toshiba.
Is the DVD Forum biblical now on what we should and shouldn't do with optical disc formats?
February 19th, 2002: Nine leading companies today announced that they have jointly established the basic specifications for a next generation large capacity optical disc video recording format called "Blu-ray Disc". The Blu-ray Disc enables the recording, rewriting and play back of up to 27 gigabytes (GB) of data on a single sided single layer 12cm CD/DVD size disc using a 405nm blue-violet laser. The companies that established the basic specifications for the Blu-ray Disc are: Hitachi Ltd., LG Electronics Inc., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd., Pioneer Corporation, Royal Philips Electronics, Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Sharp Corporation, Sony Corporation, and Thomson Multimedia.
Does that say "Sony announced" or does it list all the companies that were founding members of the DVD Forum other than Microshiba?
Does the DVD Forum tell you when to eat breakfast as well?
Sony don't get $30 a player. Where did you hear this nonsense from? I notice you conveniently didn't cite a link or source.
If I could spell it means:
pedagogical
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of pedagogy.
2. Characterized by pedantic formality: a haughty, pedagogic manner.
pedagogy is the teaching of children
What? Who do you work for?
They do? Funny, you don't seem to know much about Blu-ray at all.
Here's a breakdown of the 2007 Blu-ray Disc releases:
Codecs
MPEG2 65 23.30%
AVC 132 47.31%
VC-1 82 29.39 %
Really, so the 26 Mbps VC-1 encode of Nature's Journey on HD DVD is byte for byte identical to the 37 Mbps VC-1 encode of hte same digital transfer on Blu-ray? Who knew!
Not likely.
I think Michael Bay is just as frustrated as all of us Blu fans. Michael Bay is the unsung hero for Blu-Ray, and I think it's great that he makes his ideas on the subject known. He seems unafraid and unrelentant. I applaud the man, and may Transformers make it's way over to the Blu side earlier than expected.
Thanks,
Michael
Yes I knew that word - I just wasn't sure if that's what you meant. Pedagoical is used in many instances on the internet but with no description, so I was wondering if it was a technological term that wasn't in the dictionary.
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