Bay HD comments

[MR BLU]

wow, 25 years has done nothing for you ehh?

http://www.nero.com/enu/nero8-introduction.html

Nero is just one of many programs capable of burning the AVCHD structure onto regular dvd discs. Just because you are interested in burning a HD-DVD structure onto a dvd, doesn't mean mastering a Blu-ray type dvd doesn't exists.

And your comments about burning HD footage onto an dvd using the HD-DVD format has basically nothing to do with HD-DVD. All you did was used that structure. Good for you!!! ...

1 last thing....

I just burned HD DVD material on a normal DVD-R disc. The material was
DVC Pro HD captured with Final Cut Pro. No HD DVD burner was needed,
no HD DVD media needed. Image quality is hard to differentiate from the
camera master tape.

Just because HD footage is capable of being burnt onto an HD-DVD disc, doesn't mean that footage is automatically HD-DVD material. It can easily be burnt on a Blu-ray disc.

P.S. Blu-ray is more 1337

[Dino]

wow, 25 years has done nothing for you ehh?

http://www.nero.com/enu/nero8-introduction.html

Nero is just one of many programs capable of burning the AVCHD structure onto regular dvd discs. Just because you are interested in burning a HD-DVD structure onto a dvd, doesn't mean mastering a Blu-ray type dvd doesn't exists.

And your comments about burning HD footage onto an dvd using the HD-DVD format has basically nothing to do with HD-DVD. All you did was used that structure. Good for you!!! ...

1 last thing....


Just because HD footage is capable of being burnt onto an HD-DVD disc, doesn't mean that footage is automatically HD-DVD material. It can easily be burnt on a Blu-ray disc.

P.S. Blu-ray is more 1337

This is great news about the newest Nero 8 update allowing DVD-R's to be
burned with AVCHD and played back on Blu Ray players. This is a new development, something that Roxio doesn't support. HD DVD authoring onto DVD-R via MPEG 2 and AVC has been possible for a long time. Please
don't make it seem like people have been playing back HD quality streams
using DVD-R media and a DVD burner on a stand alone Blu Ray player for a long time.

Nero even has a name for HD DVD streams authored onto DVD-R media, they call it mini HD DVD.

The reality about the two formats is that they are much more similar than
different, especially when it comes to image quality. Other than more disc
capacity, I do not see why anybody would consider Blu Ray to be superior.
And I certainly don't understand all of the Blu Ray fan boy zealots who even
use "Blu" in their forum names. To get emotionally attached to any delivery format is more than a little bizarre.

Dino

[MR BLU]

This is great news about the newest Nero 8 update allowing DVD-R's to be
burned with AVCHD and played back on Blu Ray players. This is a new development, something that Roxio doesn't support. HD DVD authoring onto DVD-R via MPEG 2 and AVC has been possible for a long time. Please
don't make it seem like people have been playing back HD quality streams
using DVD-R media and a DVD burner on a stand alone Blu Ray player for a long time.

Nero even has a name for HD DVD streams authored onto DVD-R media, they call it mini HD DVD.

The reality about the two formats is that they are much more similar than
different, especially when it comes to image quality. Other than more disc
capacity, I do not see why anybody would consider Blu Ray to be superior.
And I certainly don't understand all of the Blu Ray fan boy zealots who even
use "Blu" in their forum names. To get emotionally attached to any delivery format is more than a little bizarre.

Dino

I only used Nero as an example, there are tons of other programs out there that have been authoring AVCHD disc. I've been doing it for about 1 1/2 years so far...

And the only difference between the 2 formats is there capacity. Of course higher capacity allows for higher bit rate and encodes, along with better sound.... which is why Blu-ray is winning and has THE best studios supporting it.

Yes, Blu is in my forum name.... I'm glad you can read

[Ranger]

wow, 25 years has done nothing for you ehh?

http://www.nero.com/enu/nero8-introduction.html

Nero is just one of many programs capable of burning the AVCHD structure onto regular dvd discs. Just because you are interested in burning a HD-DVD structure onto a dvd, doesn't mean mastering a Blu-ray type dvd doesn't exists.

And your comments about burning HD footage onto an dvd using the HD-DVD format has basically nothing to do with HD-DVD. All you did was used that structure. Good for you!!! ...

1 last thing....


Just because HD footage is capable of being burnt onto an HD-DVD disc, doesn't mean that footage is automatically HD-DVD material. It can easily be burnt on a Blu-ray disc.

P.S. Blu-ray is more 1337

Can you play these AVCHD DVD discs on the PS3 or Blu-ray stand alone players?

[MR BLU]

Can you play these AVCHD DVD discs on the PS3 or Blu-ray stand alone players?

Both. I have a Sony HDR-SR1 camera which records 1080i and 5.1 DTS toa 20 gb hdd. After editing, I burn an AVCHD disc with nero, and it plays beautifully on my 62" Samsung via PS3

[Ranger]

Both. I have a Sony HDR-SR1 camera which records 1080i and 5.1 DTS toa 20 gb hdd. After editing, I burn an AVCHD disc with nero, and it plays beautifully on my 62" Samsung via PS3

Thanks for the info, that's great to know. Can you create BD-MV content like an actual Blu-ray movie? Will it support BD-J functionality?

On the HD DVD side, you can author DVD discs with all the same features you find in an actual professional HD DVD title (including HDi).

[MR BLU]

Thanks for the info, that's great to know. Can you create BD-MV content like an actual Blu-ray movie? Will it support BD-J functionality?

On the HD DVD side, you can author DVD discs with all the same features you find in an actual professional HD DVD title (including HDi).

With Nero, I don't think so... But there are applications out there that will author the BD-J stuff. They cost more $ though

[Ranger]

With Nero, I don't think so... But there are applications out there that will author the BD-J stuff. They cost more $ though

According to paidgeek (who works for Sony Pictures) you can only create BDMV discs on approved AACS recodable media. This means you can't use DVD discs. You have to use a Blu-ray burner to burn BD-R discs designed to support authoring with AACS.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1793

The menu capabilities of BDAV are minimal, but consumers will be able to use the full BDMV spec if they choose to, so long as they are using approved AACS recordable media.

[richard l.]

Weird how there are people who would rather have some gimmicky interactive features over superior picture and audio quality.
You can say all you want about blu-ray not having superior capabilities, but Mr. Bay is far more qualified than any of us to make that call and he says it is so.
Quit arguing in support of a dying format and just go get yourself a blu-ray player already.

[Dino]

Weird how there are people who would rather have some gimmicky interactive features over superior picture and audio quality.
You can say all you want about blu-ray not having superior capabilities, but Mr. Bay is far more qualified than any of us to make that call and he says it is so.
Quit arguing in support of a dying format and just go get yourself a blu-ray player already.

Just as soon as they finalize the spec. No profile 1.0 crippled version for me.
As far as the superior picture and audio, funny how professional reviewers haven't found that to be the case.

Dino

[dobyblue]

Just as soon as they finalize the spec. No profile 1.0 crippled version for me.
As far as the superior picture and audio, funny how professional reviewers haven't found that to be the case.

Dino

Actually they have - Blu-ray has higher average PQ and SQ than HD DVD when reviews are compared, especially in the audio department.

HDD 279HD/303BD, HTS 251HD/270BD, HTF 104HD/107BD, UD 150HD/133BD, Talk 306HD/322BD
10.31.07

HD DVD PQ       SQ       TOTAL                   Blu-ray  PQ       SQ       TOTAL

HighDef            3.88     3.61     3.74       HighDef     3.94     3.81      3.87 
HTSpot            3.96     3.88     3.92      HTSpot       4.09     4.28      4.18 
DVDTalk         3.63     3.50     3.56      DVDTalk    3.69      3.74     3.71 
HTForum         3.89     3.68     3.78      HTForum    4.25      4.04     4.14 
UpDisc             3.98     3.80     3.89      UpDisc       4.03     4.12      4.07 
Totals           3.84     3.67     3.76             Totals     3.94     3.96     3.95 

As for non-crippled players, the Sylvania is profile 1.1 with HDMI 1.3 and will street for less than $300
Or there's the new PHilips for MSRP$349 which should street for $299
There is a new profile 2.0 player from Panasonic, the DMP-BD50
Two new 2.0 players annoucned from Sony
New 1.1 player from Sharp
New 1.1 dual format from Samsung, BD-UP5500
New 1.1 standalone blu-ray from Samsung, BD-P1500

Look for more players announced throughout the week from Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, and perhaps a few new annnoucements from JVC, HItachi, Mitsubishi and others.

[Dino]

dobyblue,

First, HD DVD has lost, no question, due to Warners announcement. However, I don't believe the decision was based on merit, just as I don't believe Paramount went HD DVD exclusive on merit. It's about $$$, not image quality or audio quality. Blu Ray's lead is based on a game console. This is not enough to base longterm marketing partnerships with. Warner saw that more studios were Blu exclusive, were persuaded by other incentives and felt the fastest way to end the war was to go Blu exclusive.

Most Blu Ray titles from Warners use the exact same encode as the HD DVD
release, so it's impossible for those titles to be superior on Blu Ray. The Blu
Ray exclusive studios titles cannot be compared with the exact same transfer, encode of the same title, because there would be no HD DVD version, so therefore could not be judged superior.

Modern codecs reach 90% of their picture quality at 12-15mBps, the last
10% tops out by 20-25mBps, even the most skilled engineers would have
a difficult time seeing any improvement at higher bit rates.

Most Blu Ray players don't decode any lossless audio codecs, so any percieved audio advantage for Blu Ray is due to PCM audio tracks, which,
while great quality, are very memory intensive and does not represent the
future of audio on HDM formats.

If you could please tell me what BD player I can buy today that gives me
profile 2.0, internet connectivity, on-board decoding of lossless codecs, I
will buy it. I canceled my Samsung BD-UP5000 because it is currently crippled in the lossless audio feature set.

I believe that by May of this year, BD players will finally be able to offer the
interactive, net connectivity, on-board decoding of lossless audio experience that my 1st gen. HD DVD player has given me for a year and a half. Until then, anybody who claims Blu Ray superiority is speaking in the
future tense.

[dobyblue]

dobyblue,

First, HD DVD has lost, no question, due to Warners announcement. However, I don't believe the decision was based on merit, just as I don't believe Paramount went HD DVD exclusive on merit. It's about $$$, not image quality or audio quality. Blu Ray's lead is based on a game console. This is not enough to base longterm marketing partnerships with. Warner saw that more studios were Blu exclusive, were persuaded by other incentives and felt the fastest way to end the war was to go Blu exclusive.

Most Blu Ray titles from Warners use the exact same encode as the HD DVD
release, so it's impossible for those titles to be superior on Blu Ray. The Blu
Ray exclusive studios titles cannot be compared with the exact same transfer, encode of the same title, because there would be no HD DVD version, so therefore could not be judged superior.

Modern codecs reach 90% of their picture quality at 12-15mBps, the last
10% tops out by 20-25mBps, even the most skilled engineers would have
a difficult time seeing any improvement at higher bit rates.

Most Blu Ray players don't decode any lossless audio codecs, so any percieved audio advantage for Blu Ray is due to PCM audio tracks, which,
while great quality, are very memory intensive and does not represent the
future of audio on HDM formats.

If you could please tell me what BD player I can buy today that gives me
profile 2.0, internet connectivity, on-board decoding of lossless codecs, I
will buy it. I canceled my Samsung BD-UP5000 because it is currently crippled in the lossless audio feature set.

I believe that by May of this year, BD players will finally be able to offer the
interactive, net connectivity, on-board decoding of lossless audio experience that my 1st gen. HD DVD player has given me for a year and a half. Until then, anybody who claims Blu Ray superiority is speaking in the
future tense.

Wow which G1 HD DVD player do you have that decodes dts-HD Master Audio, because as far as I know there aren't any.

If Warner optimized for Blu-ray, those review numbers would be even more in Blu-ray's favour.

As for PCM, you're just wrong - PCM is not memory intensive at all. It's bandwidth intensive.

PCM is actually less memory intensive than any other codec, because it's neither encoded nor decoded.

The people that actually work with VC-1 and MPEG-4 have stated that you need a minimum of 26-28 Mbps to get the best results, which is why you don't see as much lossless audio on HD DVD. So while you can believe the people getting paid to make vc-1 (Microsoft), I'll believe the people who are neutral like Richard Casey from R&B Films.

I think you'll find you're also wrong about the percentage of players that support lossless audio in Blu-ray - the majority of them support Dolby TrueHD.

Moving forward the new Panasonic is 2.0 and supports decoding of TrueHD, dts-MA and bitstreaming of dts-MA. At an MSRP of $599 and a street price of around $499, it will perform better than any HD DVD player and will play more studio's movies.

As for $$$, you are right. Movies on disc is a $94 billion industry - no wonder Warner chose Blu-ray without needing a payoff - it's the only logical choice.

[Dino]

dobyblue,

No, my 1st gen. doesn't decode DTS lossless tracks, but there aren't many on HD DVD titles. There are a lot of Dolby True HD lossless tracks and of course Dolby Digital Plus, lossy, but still sounds good--won best audio track for "Transformers", proving that high bit rates aren't everything.

Both AVC and VC-1 do not see visible image quality gains over 20Mbps.
That's not what they were designed to do.

I'm still waiting to hear about a final profile Blu Ray stand alone player that I can buy TODAY that can match the interactive features, web connectivity,
and on-board decoding of lossless audio codecs found on Blu Ray titles.

This is what I've had since June of 2006 with HD DVD, why can't I expect the same from the "superior" format? HD DVD used VC-1 and AVC HD low bit rate optimized codecs from the beginning, Blu Ray started with MPEG 2, and PCM audio, the first Sony player couldn't even play CD's. Forget about
true interactive features or net downloads--except PS/3. A crippled feature set for twice the price.

It's now January of 2008, we're seeing some Profile 1.1 players come out
finally, don't know if they actually play BDi titles, which are just coming out.
Won't be able to download new firmware from the net with most of these
players, got to have a new receiver with HDMI 1.3a inputs to decode lossless
codecs.

I forgot, how is the consumer experience better with BD again?

Now I've got to wait until May for a Samsung 5500 combo player that will finally do what was promised with the Samsung 5000, which is still trickling
out in crippled form and unknown whether it will be updated . Glad I didn't
spend $800 on that. Or any $$$ on a Profile 1.0 player.

I'll buy a BD stand alone player today at any price, if it will just do what I'm used to doing with my old gen. 1 HD DVD player for the past 18 months, that's all I'm asking.

[Johnny LaPhlegm]

no wonder Warner chose Blu-ray without needing a payoff - it's the only logical choice.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08012/848675-96.stm
Other Industry Insiders at AVS forums with no "party affiliation" have corroborated the story. Let's not kid ourselves. In the end, attach rates, PS3, standalones, 2:1 software ratio, bandwidth, capacity- none of it meant dick. All of the major moves in this war were made from a checkbook.