James Cameron Disses ROTF

[uraydo]

There are things that work for some people and not others but its down to personal preference. If it isn't, please provide a list of what works & what doesn't and where the list has come from

As for Camerons remarks, he's only saying what alot of people have said. Movies need to have a balance. They're more than the sum of their parts

http://www.amazon.com/Story-Substanc...0441328&sr=8-1

[warhorse]

Transformers will only be remembered for its great CGI from ILM. Shia Leboeuff and Megan Fox will be forgotten in 10 years....

Actually, I disagree with half this statement. Megan Fox will end up being the next Alicia Silverstone in my opinion, but Shia definitely has a career ahead if him. He was catching people's eyes before Transformers in Even Stevens, Constantine, Disturbia and Eagle Eye. He's going to be around for quite some time. I see him as the next Will Smith or Christian Bale in 10 to 15 years, if not 5.

And as for Transformers, sorry, but a movie doesn't make it to the top 20 list and be forgotten in ten years from now. That's what movies like Bruno are for.

[Hanna]

http://www.amazon.com/Story-Substanc...0441328&sr=8-1

I'm disappointed in you Uraydo. Your taking what McKee and Keene say as Gospel in writing. But you don't understand the finer points of storytelling. Expand your knowledge base my dear. Then we, or at least I, will have more respect for your comments. As of right know you sound like a child trying out a new word you just learned in school. At the beginning it was fine but you refuse to move on. That is doing yourself a disservice and will hinder you from growing into what your trying to become. I am not trying to belittle you Uraydo or anyone else here. Some of us who have more experience and study than you, are just trying to help you get over this point of just regurgitating knowledge and to the point were you truly understand it.

If you don't understand someone's point of view, don't argue with them just tell them you don't see it and could they please explain more so you may get a better idea of how THEY are see something. The conversation will be much more polite and you may learn something, even if you don't agree.

Are you still at SCAD? If so see about taking a basic communications class in Graphic Design. A music appreciation or fundamentals class that discusses the structure of the story in the music piece. A photography class just because you get more hands on than a cinematography class. Though take that as well but a little later is fine. Understand the composition and lighting of photography and how it effects the viewer. If you can find an anthropology or psychology class that discusses human triggers and instinctive behavior those would be some good classes under your belt.

Get a library card or spend lots of time in the school's library. Read anything and everything that may have information on story or storytelling tools. Don't be afraid to go into other areas of art like graphic design, advertising, painting, photography, and sculpture. If you wish to become a good screen writer you need to understand other storytelling tools and methods other than just the principles of writing. Remember college is just the beginning of the journey to enlightenment. Don't let it be the end. You have a good head on your shoulders I just don't want to see it wasted. If you need help don't be afraid to ask, whether its a professor you know or even one you don't know that's what they are there for. Also many here would be more than happy to help, just ask.

[Hanna]

Actually, I disagree with half this statement. Megan Fox will end up being the next Alicia Silverstone in my opinion, but Shia definitely has a career ahead if him. He was catching people's eyes before Transformers in Even Stevens, Constantine, Disturbia and Eagle Eye. He's going to be around for quite some time. I see him as the next Will Smith or Christian Bale in 10 to 15 years, if not 5.

Actually I have to agree with Spielberg. I think Shia is the next Harrison Ford more than Smith or Bale. Smith can be too goofy serious while Bale is more deep serious. Shia, like Ford, is a nice middle ground.

[uraydo]

I'm disappointed in you Uraydo. Your taking what McKee and Keene say as Gospel in writing. But you don't understand the finer points of storytelling. Expand your knowledge base my dear. Then we, or at least I, will have more respect for your comments. As of right know you sound like a child trying out a new word you just learned in school. At the beginning it was fine but you refuse to move on. That is doing yourself a disservice and will hinder you from growing into what your trying to become. I am not trying to belittle you Uraydo or anyone else here. Some of us who have more experience and study than you, are just trying to help you get over this point of just regurgitating knowledge and to the point were you truly understand it.

If you don't understand someone's point of view, don't argue with them just tell them you don't see it and could they please explain more so you may get a better idea of how THEY are see something. The conversation will be much more polite and you may learn something, even if you don't agree.

Are you still at SCAD? If so see about taking a basic communications class in Graphic Design. A music appreciation or fundamentals class that discusses the structure of the story in the music piece. A photography class just because you get more hands on than a cinematography class. Though take that as well but a little later is fine. Understand the composition and lighting of photography and how it effects the viewer. If you can find an anthropology or psychology class that discusses human triggers and instinctive behavior those would be some good classes under your belt.

Get a library card or spend lots of time in the school's library. Read anything and everything that may have information on story or storytelling tools. Don't be afraid to go into other areas of art like graphic design, advertising, painting, photography, and sculpture. If you wish to become a good screen writer you need to understand other storytelling tools and methods other than just the principles of writing. Remember college is just the beginning of the journey to enlightenment. Don't let it be the end. You have a good head on your shoulders I just don't want to see it wasted. If you need help don't be afraid to ask, whether its a professor you know or even one you don't know that's what they are there for. Also many here would be more than happy to help, just ask.

No, I'm taking what others have said to back up my own point view, rather than just talking out of my ass.

ever since ROTF came out, All I keep hearing around here are people ragging on critics and others who don't like the movie, when in fact, they have many valid points. You insinuate that I am the closed minded one, but am I? Am I really? During our discussions here I have gone back in to multiple books and done on-line research to make sure, what I was saying had meaning behind it.

So I'm sorry if my referencing makes me sound like a child. But if you really want me to act like a child, I suggest you call me a child again.

[Hanna]

No, I'm taking what others have said to back up my own point view, rather than just talking out of my ass.

ever since ROTF came out, All I keep hearing around here are people ragging on critics and others who don't like the movie, when in fact, they have many valid points. You insinuate that I am the closed minded one, but am I? Am I really? During our discussions here I have gone back in to multiple books and done on-line research to make sure, what I was saying had meaning behind it.

So I'm sorry if my referencing makes me sound like a child. But if you really want me to act like a child, I suggest you call me a child again.

Wow! You just spit on a professional and a lifetime artist who wishes to help you enrich yourself and reach your full potential.

Then fine my dear. Only one thing let to say.
You are a Child!!!

[uraydo]

Wow! You just spit on a professional and a lifetime artist who wishes to help you enrich yourself and reach your full potential.

Then fine my dear. Only one thing let to say.
You are a Child!!!

Now I'm just curious about what kind of artist you are.

I'll save my childish behavior for a little later.

[Ed Fuego]

ever since ROTF came out, All I keep hearing around here are people ragging on critics and others who don't like the movie, when in fact, they have many valid points.

This is quite true, but just the same, there have been people who have been ragging on the movie who don't have valid points. They are grasping at straws in many cases to find faults with this movie that they would easily overlook in other movies. I'm not sure why, but it could be as some have suggested that some have a bias against Bay's movies, or action movies, or movies produced by Speilberg, or movies that open near July 4, or whatever. I'm not sure any definitive answer of this will ever be found.

I can agree that ROTF has some faults, but that didn't diminish the entertainment value for me. Those may be faults in storytelling, editing, or whatever. I don't know. I'm not that knowledgable about such things. But I do know that it entertained me, and that's what I was looking for.

The problem that I have, and I'm not sure in the various discussions over the past weeks whether this describes you, but it seems that there are some people who feel that because of the faults in the movie that they percieve, it is incorrect for someone to find this movie entertaining, or worthy of repeated viewings, or the box office, or whatever. It is an apparent indication that the person who enjoyed it is either not cultured or educated or knowledgable about "what makes a movie good". This conclusion is absurd, as the enjoyment, in the end, is an opinion. There is no getting around this.

One could argue that a particular movie does not follow storytelling "protocols" while another movie does, and perhaps this is one way to conclude that one movie was "better" than another (although I'm skeptical about that), but that doesn't necessarily influence one's enjoyment of the movie. For some it does; for some it doesn't. There is no right answer to this question; this is perhaps the core characteristic of what makes art "art".


Ed Fuego

[Darth Stitch]

This is quite true, but just the same, there have been people who have been ragging on the movie who don't have valid points. They are grasping at straws in many cases to find faults with this movie that they would easily overlook in other movies. I'm not sure why, but it could be as some have suggested that some have a bias against Bay's movies, or action movies, or movies produced by Speilberg, or movies that open near July 4, or whatever. I'm not sure any definitive answer of this will ever be found.

I can agree that ROTF has some faults, but that didn't diminish the entertainment value for me. Those may be faults in storytelling, editing, or whatever. I don't know. I'm not that knowledgable about such things. But I do know that it entertained me, and that's what I was looking for.

The problem that I have, and I'm not sure in the various discussions over the past weeks whether this describes you, but it seems that there are some people who feel that because of the faults in the movie that they percieve, it is incorrect for someone to find this movie entertaining, or worthy of repeated viewings, or the box office, or whatever. It is an apparent indication that the person who enjoyed it is either not cultured or educated or knowledgable about "what makes a movie good". This conclusion is absurd, as the enjoyment, in the end, is an opinion. There is no getting around this.

One could argue that a particular movie does not follow storytelling "protocols" while another movie does, and perhaps this is one way to conclude that one movie was "better" than another (although I'm skeptical about that), but that doesn't necessarily influence one's enjoyment of the movie. For some it does; for some it doesn't. There is no right answer to this question; this is perhaps the core characteristic of what makes art "art".


Ed Fuego

Thank you! You nailed it right on the head. I've said it before and I'll say it again - DOWN with intellectual snobbery! A snob of whatever breed is a soul to be pitied, really, especially the intellectual ones. They have a lot of knowledge, true but they lack wisdom to use it well.

[uraydo]

This is quite true, but just the same, there have been people who have been ragging on the movie who don't have valid points. They are grasping at straws in many cases to find faults with this movie that they would easily overlook in other movies. I'm not sure why, but it could be as some have suggested that some have a bias against Bay's movies, or action movies, or movies produced by Speilberg, or movies that open near July 4, or whatever. I'm not sure any definitive answer of this will ever be found.

I can agree that ROTF has some faults, but that didn't diminish the entertainment value for me. Those may be faults in storytelling, editing, or whatever. I don't know. I'm not that knowledgable about such things. But I do know that it entertained me, and that's what I was looking for.

The problem that I have, and I'm not sure in the various discussions over the past weeks whether this describes you, but it seems that there are some people who feel that because of the faults in the movie that they percieve, it is incorrect for someone to find this movie entertaining, or worthy of repeated viewings, or the box office, or whatever. It is an apparent indication that the person who enjoyed it is either not cultured or educated or knowledgable about "what makes a movie good". This conclusion is absurd, as the enjoyment, in the end, is an opinion. There is no getting around this.

One could argue that a particular movie does not follow storytelling "protocols" while another movie does, and perhaps this is one way to conclude that one movie was "better" than another (although I'm skeptical about that), but that doesn't necessarily influence one's enjoyment of the movie. For some it does; for some it doesn't. There is no right answer to this question; this is perhaps the core characteristic of what makes art "art".


Ed Fuego

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. If it wasn't for peoples opinions ultimately ruling what they like, we would never see movies with anti-plots such as Mighty Python and the Holy Grail. Then again, we may never have seen a Hanna Montana movie either. Or Alvin and the Chipmunks for that matter.

[uraydo]

Thank you! You nailed it right on the head. I've said it before and I'll say it again - DOWN with intellectual snobbery! A snob of whatever breed is a soul to be pitied, really, especially the intellectual ones. They have a lot of knowledge, true but they lack wisdom to use it well.

Maybe this so called snob you keep referring to is just misunderstood.

[Ed Fuego]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. If it wasn't for peoples opinions ultimately ruling what they like, we would never see movies with anti-plots such as Mighty Python and the Holy Grail. Then again, we may never have seen a Hanna Montana movie either. Or Alvin and the Chipmunks for that matter.

Yeah, we always have to take the "good" with the "bad". For every statue of David, there's a statue of some melted trash with a name like, "My time with the orange penguins." But it's all art.

I will never understand the appeal of a Hanna Montana movie. Of course, I've never been a 13 year old girl. But if people are entertained by them, then I'm cool with it.*

*Except for people who like Pauly Shore movies. I want to punch those people in the face. In fact, I'm not even sure those people are technically human beings.

Ed Fuego

[uraydo]

Yeah, we always have to take the "good" with the "bad". For every statue of David, there's a statue of some melted trash with a name like, "My time with the orange penguins." But it's all art.

I will never understand the appeal of a Hanna Montana movie. Of course, I've never been a 13 year old girl. But if people are entertained by them, then I'm cool with it.*

*Except for people who like Pauly Shore movies. I want to punch those people in the face. In fact, I'm not even sure those people are technically human beings.

Ed Fuego

BIO DOME WAS THE BOMB!!!!!

[Trailbreaker]

*Walks in thread*

*chair is smashed over my head*

*Walks out*

O_o

[Hanna]

*Walks in thread*

*chair is smashed over my head*

*Walks out*

O_o

Your still walking after the chair is smashed over your head? Damn what were you drinking? I want some!

[r-type]

Your still walking after the chair is smashed over your head? Damn what were you drinking? I want some!

Well, Ed did say Pauly Shore fans weren't human....

[Trailbreaker]

Your still walking after the chair is smashed over your head? Damn what were you drinking? I want some!

No, I need firewood. The winters are brutal up here. I might as well carry it over my head on the way home.

[Hanna]

No, I need firewood. The winters are brutal up here. I might as well carry it over my head on the way home.

Free Firewood Sale Going on NOW. I wouldn't turn my back on getting something free.

[Trailbreaker]

Free Firewood Sale Going on NOW. I wouldn't turn my back on getting something free.

Wait, "free firewood sale?" If it's free then why would there be a sale?

[Hanna]

Wait, "free firewood sale?" If it's free then why would there be a sale?

What you don't think its always going to be free do you? oh no. After today it goes up to regular price for all chairs broke over ones head..... ummmm... I mean firewood.

[Trailbreaker]

What you don't think its always going to be free do you? oh no. After today it goes up to regular price for all chairs broke over ones head..... ummmm... I mean firewood.

Well good thing I got this chair smashed over my thread at a convenient moment. Thank Primus for barroom thread brawls.

Oh boy, we better get back on topic, cuz I'm really derailing this thread now.

[Hanna]

Well good thing I got this chair smashed over my thread at a convenient moment. Thank Primus for barroom thread brawls.

Oh boy, we better get back on topic, cuz I'm really derailing this thread now.

Umm, Well, Ummm. Have we figured out if a diss has actually occurred?

[Trailbreaker]

Umm, Well, Ummm. Have we figured out if a diss has actually occurred?

I couldn't see one. I think this small comment he made about Transformers has been blown way too out of proportion.

Of course, then again, I think he's overrated anyways, doesn't mean I hate him though. (Long live T1 and T2)

[Xsubs]

What you don't think its always going to be free do you? oh no. After today it goes up to regular price for all chairs broke over ones head..... ummmm... I mean firewood.

your such a child!

[Trailbreaker]

your such a child!

Maybe she doesn't want to grow up! Screw it, being a kid is awesome. Who's with me? *raises hand*