M Bay Talks ROTF and making actors Stars

[EpicBacons]

Even the Fallen chose good. Save Cybertron by blowing up Earths sun.

Not really, in the first film Megatron and the Decepticons wanted the All-spark for their own gain, and that was to eradicate the entire human race and dominate the universe by creating a fresh new Decepticon army. Optimus said in the first film that Megatron and the Decepticons eliminated all innocent life on Cybertron, as well as those that opposed him. I'm sure that Megatron's goals aren't at all different to that of the Fallen.

I doubt their goals to dominate the universe changed in the second film.

[alexsm]

BTW when you say traditional hero, who do you have in mind?

A traditional hero of Epic tales. The one who starts being a hero and ends being a Hero. And a kind of hero that could be seen in 30s and 40s movies than now seems to be old fashioned. The one usually played by Errol Flynn, but without getting the girl.

And i agree Sam is a more complex character, but that doesn't make Optimus a wrong one, i'm not saying i'm against that.

Optimus is a Defender, in this case Sam's defender and earth's life defender, and he acts in that way. And in the case he had to choose betwen defending him or giving him to the decepticons his choice is very clear, defend Sam and fight the decepticons because the US goverments are wrong.

And The Fallen doesn't try to save Cybertron, just to save the Decepticons and kill humanity. In all this 19.000 years he awaited to blow the sun never tried to find another star to blow. If he didn't wanted to kill life in earth, why? Wouldn't it be easier to search for other?

And the last point. I don't know what's the problem with Sam being the main character of the movie.

[ReDPATH]

I think this thread has brought out some bad in everyone.

Bay fans hating on Bay himself.

People arguing over what Megan Fox said or has said in the past. Really who cares if she's a pothead and wants pot legalized. Lets not be PC here and pretend shes the only person in that camp.

Other actresses say random crap as well and they don't get the kind of attention this whole Fox thing has gotten. The only thing that matters is if the stuff between her and Bay is simply friendly jabs at one another or will there end up being more to the issue then meets the eye when Transformers 3 rolls around.

Human screen time vs Transformers screen time. I'll agree every time that the Transformers need some more screen time but im a realist and I see it as wanting an even balance or knowing what to expect with the blueprint in place through two films.

Characterization of the Transformers is another issue all together. People will bitch whether they give some of them personalities or not. Whether Bumblebee talks through his radio or the Megatron/Starscream dynamic or wanting more Decepticons having personalities rather than being just there to kill and be killed.

Its a double edged sword really. Make them all business or give them something to say that might piss off a select crowd of people? I think Bay has played it right in terms of their personalities.

Key members of the Autobots have personalities (Optimus = Leader Bumblebee = Cool, chill good guy and Ironhide = Badass warrior) and key Decepticons with personalities (Megatron = Ruthless and Starscream = Coward strategist).

Beyond giving some of them on each side more lines. I can't see a reason for the movies to go out of there way to tell us what Ratchet's favorite weapon is or what motives the Decepticons have for annihilation.

[uraydo]

Not really, in the first film Megatron and the Decepticons wanted the All-spark for their own gain, and that was to eradicate the entire human race and dominate the universe by creating a fresh new Decepticon army. Optimus said in the first film that Megatron and the Decepticons eliminated all innocent life on Cybertron, as well as those that opposed him. I'm sure that Megatron's goals aren't at all different to that of the Fallen.

I doubt their goals to dominate the universe changed in the second film.

It's not many times when I tell people they are flat out wrong, but you are. Megatron was after power. Power that he could use to strengthen his Decepticons. He was working for the GOOD of his Decepticons. Optimus's views seemed to soft for Megatron and inadequate for the preservation of his people. There for, Megatorn chose good. Every one thinks they are ultimately good.

A traditional hero of Epic tales. The one who starts being a hero and ends being a Hero. And a kind of hero that could be seen in 30s and 40s movies than now seems to be old fashioned. The one usually played by Errol Flynn, but without getting the girl.

And i agree Sam is a more complex character, but that doesn't make Optimus a wrong one, i'm not saying i'm against that.

Optimus is a Defender, in this case Sam's defender and earth's life defender, and he acts in that way. And in the case he had to choose betwen defending him or giving him to the decepticons his choice is very clear, defend Sam and fight the decepticons because the US goverments are wrong.

And The Fallen doesn't try to save Cybertron, just to save the Decepticons and kill humanity. In all this 19.000 years he awaited to blow the sun never tried to find another star to blow. If he didn't wanted to kill life in earth, why? Wouldn't it be easier to search for other?

And the last point. I don't know what's the problem with Sam being the main character of the movie.

Well Beowolf was a Horny SOB and Hercules was dumb as bricks. To me, good characters rarely, if ever, just come in to save the day.

Your statement on the fallen is a reach. The writers never went into depth about why earth was chosen over other stars, but I can assure you that the Fallen didn't do it to be evil.

I don't have a problem with Sam being the main character, but due to the subject matter, I think it's only fair to have an Autobot protaganist. Hell, even Small Soldiers had Archer to help fill the role dual protaganist. If Small Soldiers can get it right, Why can't Transformers.

And some may debate that Bumblebee or Optimus fills the role for dual protaganist, but I would have to say they are wrong. The only thing optimus really does is fight. Bumblebee does more, but never really has to make a decision. Archer on the otherhand over came his cowardist and programing to stop the out of control soldiers. None of the Autobots came close to doing anything on that level. Heck, Optimus couldn't even muster up a real reaction to the death of his lutent Jazz.


and BTW, incase you were wondering, Yes, I do think Small Soldiers had a better script... and there robots had better character.

[EpicBacons]

It's not many times when I tell people they are flat out wrong, but you are. Megatron was after power. Power that he could use to strengthen his Decepticons. He was working for the GOOD of his Decepticons. Optimus's views seemed to soft for Megatron and inadequate for the preservation of his people. There for, Megatorn chose good. Every one thinks they are ultimately good.

Good of his own clan, which thirsted on total and utter domination of the universe. Good for the Decepticons, but not the good of the universe. So really its the benefit for evil.

The Decepticons always craved the power of the All-spark, which unfortunately resulted in the death of many innocent Cybertronian lives. The Decepticons wanted the power of the All-spark for their own evil purpose. It isn't any different with the Energon-Sun Harvester.

[universalmind]

You claimed that I was making stuff up, correct?

About what she said about Transformers. Either that or you just took what the media said as fact. It seems to me they just spiced up the story to get more sales or views.

She was talking about that its disgusting because someone could have eaten something previously before acting out that kissing scene, and that that piece of 'food' into her mouth.

:lol That is disgusting. I don't see how that has anything to do with anything though.

I actually agree with you on just about everything to do with the movie, but I don't think those things listed classify someone as a bitch/slut/whore/whatever. I think she seems nice enough.

[Hanna]

It's not many times when I tell people they are flat out wrong, but you are. Megatron was after power. Power that he could use to strengthen his Decepticons. He was working for the GOOD of his Decepticons. Optimus's views seemed to soft for Megatron and inadequate for the preservation of his people. There for, Megatorn chose good. Every one thinks they are ultimately good.

There is a really great old expression for this.
"The road to Hell is paved in good intentions."

Neither Megatron or the Fallen seemed to truly care if another Decepticon died, as long as their agenda was moved forward for domination of the universe. The only one who showed any type of emotion in regards to saving the hatchlings was Starscream.

[uraydo]

Good of his own clan, which thirsted on total and utter domination of the universe. Good for the Decepticons, but not the good of the universe. So really its the benefit for evil.

The Decepticons always craved the power of the All-spark, which unfortunately resulted in the death of many innocent Cybertronian lives. The Decepticons wanted the power of the All-spark for their own evil purpose. It isn't any different with the Energon-Sun Harvester.

There is a really great old expression for this.
"The road to Hell is paved in good intentions."

Neither Megatron or the Fallen seemed to truly care if another Decepticon died, as long as their agenda was moved forward for domination of the universe. The only one who showed any type of emotion in regards to saving the hatchlings was Starscream.

It doesn't matter what you perceive as "good." A character will always follow HIS or HER own moral code. There own since of right and wrong. Take the Nazi's. They thought God was on there side. So do "Terrorist." No matter how sick and twisted someone seems to be, they believe themselves to be doing the right thing. No one does evil for the sake of evil.

We only perceive one to be "evil" because their moral code does not match our own

[Xsubs]

It doesn't matter what you perceive as "good." A character will always follow HIS or HER own moral code. There own since of right and wrong. Take the Nazi's. They thought God was on there side. So do "Terrorist." No matter how sick and twisted someone seems to be, they believe themselves to be doing the right thing. No one does evil for the sake of evil.

We only perceive one to be "evil" because their moral code does not match our own

Similar to Darth Vader. Vader/Anakin was a man who had lost everything, and what he thought he did was right, others didnt.