Official Transformers DVD/HD DVD Info. >> Release Date: October 16

[nelson]

What did Paramount forget with the sound on HD? Explain it to me. Did they deliver something less then perfect? I never got involved in the HD version because I was so into Blu-ray, so what did the tech department not do?

Michael

The tech dept opted not to use a lossless audio format (maybe because of the lack of space. I can imagine if they would've included a lossless audio format for the movie, they might've had to split the movie onto 2 disks...something that could be done easily with Blur-ray). That said, it's a shame the HD-DVD release of Transformers won't have 'Dolby True-HD' or 'DTS-HD' audio (and not that it's not capable of doing so).

From the titles I have seen so far in both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camp (MI:3, Superman Returns, and 300) the video seems the same, but the interactive menus look slightly better on the HD-DVD side. But, the audio slightly seems a bit clearer on the Blu-ray side. This is not an endorsement of any kind, just an observation.

On a side note: I think lossless audio or the lack thereof won't be a determining factor in the DVD Wars. That's not to say it shouldn't be included in the titles themselves.

[Tobi]

I pre-ordered my HD DVD the day it became available on amazon, I can't wait! , and for the guys that get picky with their codecs (lol) it's a high-bitrate AVC encode, so there, also the DD+ track was encoded at 1.5mbps, so I'm not worried about that at all, I'm sure this will be one of the best Hi-Def releases to date, demo material all the way.

For reference, I'm linking a review of another dual format Paramount release that didn't get a lossless track, DD+ encoded at the same bitrate as Transformers.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/miss...ssibleiii.html

[Dennis M]

From the titles I have seen so far in both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camp (MI:3, Superman Returns, and 300) the video seems the same, but the interactive menus look slightly better on the HD-DVD side. But, the audio slightly seems a bit clearer on the Blu-ray side. This is not an endorsement of any kind, just an observation.

Have to agree with you Nelson, Blu-ray has definitely been doing a better job at delivering lossless audio than HD DVD. Hopefully with the DVD Forum approving the 17gig layers for production this issue will go away. My understanding is that they are currently testing the Gen 1 & 2 players with these new size layers. Indications are that there will not be any compatibilty issues. Well, let's see if that holds true.

I'm still a little disappointed that there will be no TrueHD track on the Transformers HD DVD. Did not stop me from placing my preorder on amazon though. In the end the movie comes first for me and not the specs. Loved Transformers and am not will to wait for the second release that will have a lossless track.

[uraydo]

Does anyone know if the extra IMax footage will be on the DVD?

[space2001]

one thing that this shows is that Paramount made a decision basing HD-dvd is all you need, but they prove that they need more by not including the better audio formats

[red996]

Hello Mr. Bay

What's happened with the HD DVD release is that Paramount has only included a DD+ (Dolby Digital Plus) track and omitted use of a Dolby Digital TrueHD (lossless audio) track.

An TrueHD track when uncompressed will be bit for bit match of the PCM tracks used for the film.

The DD+ used for the Transformers release is a lossy track. That means that certain frequencies will be filtered out to reduce the size and then compressed. This track will not match the PCM originals like the TrueHD track will.

Blu-ray also uses Dolby Digital's TrueHD to deliver lossless audio along with DTS HD MA and PCM.

It has been argued that DD+ at 1.5mbps is close to lossless and the difference is not perceptible.

Personally I think you can hear the difference.

If lossless audio is possible why not give it to us?

The whole point is to experience the film as it was intended.

Dennis

I wish it still was coming in Blu-Ray because thanks to the extra 20GB of space you get in the disk they usually include the pcm uncompressed in addition to the Dolby True HD giving the consumer options on how they want her the movie.

[Tobi]

Prime drops off by CEDIA to promote the release

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post11562145

[r-type]

Prime drops off by CEDIA to promote the release

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post11562145

Weird, whoever posted that is from my neck of the woods. (Mo. City)

What does CEDIA stand for and is that in town because that would suck if I missed a chance to be standing a few feet from the Peterbilt?

[sora]

Weird, whoever posted that is from my neck of the woods. (Mo. City)

What does CEDIA stand for and is that in town because that would suck if I missed a chance to be standing a few feet from the Peterbilt?

I guess this is it.

CEDIA EXPO 2007
September 5-9, 2007
Denver, CO - Colorado Convention Center

Nice closeup picture...I realized Prime has white outlines around his flames.

[r-type]

I guess this is it.



Nice closeup picture...I realized Prime has white outlines around his flames.

Thx for the info Sora.

[Dennis M]

Weird, whoever posted that is from my neck of the woods. (Mo. City)

What does CEDIA stand for and is that in town because that would suck if I missed a chance to be standing a few feet from the Peterbilt?

CEDIA stands for Custom Electronic Design and Installation Association.

They have an annual trade show in Denver. The focus tends to be geared towards the display industry, PJ's, Panels,etc...

This is usually where the manufactures show off their latest and greatest. I believe JVC and Sony where showing of their 4K digital projectors this year.

It only makes sense that HD DVD and Blu-ray would court the attendees of this show.

I Would love to see the Prime Peterblit truck. It looks impressive.

[ClaytonMG]

The same could be said of Target getting payed by Sony.

What's funny about Sony paying Target is that they didn't pay them to drop HD-DVD though, they just paid them for an endstand with Blu-Ray. Target didn't have any HD-DVD players or Blu-Ray players yet...

[ClaytonMG]

The tech dept opted not to use a lossless audio format (maybe because of the lack of space. I can imagine if they would've included a lossless audio format for the movie, they might've had to split the movie onto 2 disks...something that could be done easily with Blur-ray). That said, it's a shame the HD-DVD release of Transformers won't have 'Dolby True-HD' or 'DTS-HD' audio (and not that it's not capable of doing so).

From the titles I have seen so far in both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camp (MI:3, Superman Returns, and 300) the video seems the same, but the interactive menus look slightly better on the HD-DVD side. But, the audio slightly seems a bit clearer on the Blu-ray side. This is not an endorsement of any kind, just an observation.

On a side note: I think lossless audio or the lack thereof won't be a determining factor in the DVD Wars. That's not to say it shouldn't be included in the titles themselves.

I would hope they looked the same since WB used ports for Superman and 300 (actually, they use ports for all their films). M:I-III was also on a single layered disc... As for the audio, it should be the reverse in theory since Dolby Digital-Plus has a higher bitrate. But I agree with you, they do sound better on Blu-Ray (except Superman Returns which has a Dolby TrueHD track on the HD-DVD and not the Blu-Ray). There's something off with DD+ in my book. I also get a kick out of the people that say DD+ is as close to lossless as you need to get. My question is, if DD+ is the same bitrate as DTS, why wasn't DTS enough? And why is it that you can tell a difference between the sound formats? Very odd..

[nelson]

What's funny about Sony paying Target is that they didn't pay them to drop HD-DVD though, they just paid them for an endstand with Blu-Ray. Target didn't have any HD-DVD players or Blu-Ray players yet...

Regardless...they got paid not to sell the products from the competition.

[ClaytonMG]

Regardless...they got paid not to sell the products from the competition.

Ahhh yes, but! They weren't paid to drop the competition. Just like I don't blame Universal for being HD-DVD exclusive, or Fox, Disney, Sony, Lionsgate for being Blu-Ray exclusive.

[nelson]

Ahhh yes, but! They weren't paid to drop the competition. Just like I don't blame Universal for being HD-DVD exclusive, or Fox, Disney, Sony, Lionsgate for being Blu-Ray exclusive.

No, they were paid to ignore...which amounts to the same thing. Just because they did it up-front doesn't make the deal less slimy.

[Johnny LaPhlegm]

the sound quality on a blu ray disc is almost as good as the master track itself...the audio on an HD-DVD is fairly similar if not the same as whats on a DVD. Seeing as how the sound design in Transformers was unbelievable, i think it would GREATLY benefit from the quality the blu ray discs can provide

I just wanted to point out that this is completely incorrect. Audio quality has nothing to do with disc formats, but rather audio encodes. Dolby Digital Plus seems to be used in many of Paramount's HD releases so they must like it for some inexplicable reason. I agree Transformers should have a Dolby TrueHD (lossless) track. However, its absence has nothing to do with any 'limitations' of HD DVD. Take a look at 300- reference level picture quality, TrueHD sound, PiP, a shitload of extras, all on one disc. Transformers is on two discs; I guarantee there is space for TrueHD but Paramount didn't use it. Maybe there's an added cost associated with mastering in TrueHD?

One other clarification- TrueHD lossless and uncompressed PCM are audibly identical. TrueHD is much more efficient and takes up a lot less space, however. Also note that ALL HD DVD players decode TrueHD as a spec standard.

[Trigger Mike]

Take a look at 300- reference level picture quality...

True, if your choice of a reference disc for a high-def medium is the grainiest film ever made in the history of man.

[Dennis M]

True, if your choice of a reference disc for a high-def medium is the grainiest film ever made in the history of man.

Ha ha ha true, but the fact that it could reproduce all that grain say's everything.

Oh, lets remember that were posting on the board of a Director that's very style centered. And I believe Transformers had a bit of grain in it too.

[Trigger Mike]

Oh, lets remember that were posting on the board of a Director that's very style centered. And I believe Transformers had a bit of grain in it too.

Hey, I never said there was anything wrong with a bit of grit!

I just wouldn't pick a grainy film to show of my HD system.

[Johnny LaPhlegm]

Two things- first, the grain in 300 was added digitally in post so it's an artistic choice. Secondly, grain is usually a bi-product of film stock and eliminating it can soften the picture, not what you want in HD mastering.

There's an industry insider on the Audio/Video Science forums that has said the Dolby Digital Plus audio track on Transformers leaves nothing on the table that TrueHD would benefit from. We'll see if that's true, but for a/v fans, I think we like to have the best regardless, whether it's placebo effect or not.

[Trigger Mike]

Two things- first, the grain in 300 was added digitally in post so it's an artistic choice. Secondly, grain is usually a bi-product of film stock and eliminating it can soften the picture, not what you want in HD mastering.

Two things: Firstly, I know the grain in 300 was added in post. Digital grain looks different from film grain, so it didn't take me very long to crack that mystery in the theatre.

Secondly, I know what grain is and I know where it comes from. However, eliminating it doesn't necessarily mean you're picture will soften. You shoot on a slow stock with fast lenses and you're going to be able to get very crips images.

My point with all this is 300, in my humble opinion, is not the best demo disc for an HD format as many would have you believe. Sure the film is visual, but that doesn't mean it's a good example of what the medium is capable of. Superman Returns looks rather stunning in HD and any animated film is a good bet for a demo disc. My feeling is that Ratatouille and Cars are going to sell particularly well on Blu-ray for this very reason.

Of course, you are allowed to differ in your opinion.

[Tobi]

Two things: Firstly, I know the grain in 300 was added in post. Digital grain looks different from film grain, so it didn't take me very long to crack that mystery in the theatre.

Secondly, I know what grain is and I know where it comes from. However, eliminating it doesn't necessarily mean you're picture will soften. You shoot on a slow stock with fast lenses and you're going to be able to get very crips images.

My point with all this is 300, in my humble opinion, is not the best demo disc for an HD format as many would have you believe. Sure the film is visual, but that doesn't mean it's a good example of what the medium is capable of. Superman Returns looks rather stunning in HD and any animated film is a good bet for a demo disc. My feeling is that Ratatouille and Cars are going to sell particularly well on Blu-ray for this very reason.

Of course, you are allowed to differ in your opinion.

Superman returns? are you serious? The film looks great in HD yes, but the way Singer shot it was way too soft for it to be demo material for an HD set up, same reason why you would not use 300 to demo, not because it's bad, because it doesn't show off the potential. For a film-based movie I would use the matrix sequels to demo, Shrek, Ratatouille and Cars are shoe ins for the holidays, I rather have the latter 2 than the former though, I loved the rat movie :P

[Johnny LaPhlegm]

Superman Returns looks rather stunning in HD and any animated film is a good bet for a demo disc. My feeling is that Ratatouille and Cars are going to sell particularly well on Blu-ray for this very reason.

No doubt the CG animated movies are reference HD material. TMNT is pretty spectacular. Superman Returns is a curious choice considering how soft the picture is. For me, the most 'crisp' picture quality I've seen on both formats is probably Hot Fuzz, Pirates, and King Kong.

[Trigger Mike]

I didn't like Superman Returns one bit - thought it was a horrible film and looked terrible at the theatre. However, I bring it up because I saw it on a HD projection (so the screen was huge) and it was incredibly sharp and the best demo I've yet seen for an HD system. The theatrical did look a little soft, but the Blu-ray demo was another story completely.

Amazing stuff.