Why Michael Bay's directing works...

[magjipro]

No matter how good you are you will always have people that don't like you just as much as you have people that love you.

Even with all his critics, I believe that Michael Bay is one of the best and most successful directors in Hollywood. He makes money, is one of the few who can do the films that he wants too, and most importantly he entertains.

I am excited to see what he doesn't with Transformers 2, I know being the type of person that he is, he will push the bar from what he did in the first movie. His movies are fun and entertaining.

Now I am not trying to kiss his ass here, as an aspiring director I have much respect for this man and I hate to see the haters. Bottom line is what he does works, might not please everyone but the mass majority is happy and at the end of the day thats all that matter so arguments otherwise don't hold much weight.

Michael if your reading this there is one thing that I would like to comment on and that is your view of Superhero films, I know you have mentioned that you really aren't that interested in doing them. I respect that but at the same time I think you should have more of an open mind to them because pretty much any action movie that has existed could have been conceived in a comic book and like Transformers there is much more depth to the stories then most people think. I guess what I am getting at is that I feel you would be great at it so I would hate to see you close the door on that idea. A Michael Bay directed Superman would but sick, I honestly think if anyone were born to direct a Superman film it would be Bay, many agree with me.

Anyway I just love Bay's work and wanted to voice my opinion.

[uraydo]

No matter how good you are you will always have people that don't like you just as much as you have people that love you.

Even with all his critics, I believe that Michael Bay is one of the best and most successful directors in Hollywood. He makes money, is one of the few who can do the films that he wants too, and most importantly he entertains.

I am excited to see what he doesn't with Transformers 2, I know being the type of person that he is, he will push the bar from what he did in the first movie. His movies are fun and entertaining.

Now I am not trying to kiss his ass here, as an aspiring director I have much respect for this man and I hate to see the haters. Bottom line is what he does works, might not please everyone but the mass majority is happy and at the end of the day thats all that matter so arguments otherwise don't hold much weight.

Michael if your reading this there is one thing that I would like to comment on and that is your view of Superhero films, I know you have mentioned that you really aren't that interested in doing them. I respect that but at the same time I think you should have more of an open mind to them because pretty much any action movie that has existed could have been conceived in a comic book and like Transformers there is much more depth to the stories then most people think. I guess what I am getting at is that I feel you would be great at it so I would hate to see you close the door on that idea. A Michael Bay directed Superman would but sick, I honestly think if anyone were born to direct a Superman film it would be Bay, many agree with me.

Anyway I just love Bay's work and wanted to voice my opinion.

First off, I see you're new, so welcome.

to the first bold print:

yes making money is the name of the game, but the goal of any storyteller should be to tell a good story. How do you think he does that? Me, I love Michael for his visuals, but I think he could afford to grow in other areas.


To the second bold print:
What do you mean by depth cause I didn't find much depth in Transformers. actually I found all the characters to be very basic. Sadly the only character that I felt could have pushed the envelope [Bonecrusher] didn't get any real screen time. How I would have loved to explore his hate.

[fu2kimus_prime]

I pretty much agree, but like Uraydo says Michael should, and will develop more as a story teller. His visuals are already second to none in my opinion.

I think alot of Michaels harshest critics forget how relatively young he is, and just how many more films he has left in him. If he's this good now imagine ten years from now.

Also a Michael Bay directed Superman would be right up my alley.

[megatron42]

cause michael is the man.. say he directed halo or something else
the movie would be great not that no talent hack of he who must not be named
michael does a movie right like he did for transformers and others he's done

[magjipro]

First off, I see you're new, so welcome.

to the first bold print:

yes making money is the name of the game, but the goal of any storyteller should be to tell a good story. How do you think he does that? Me, I love Michael for his visuals, but I think he could afford to grow in other areas.


To the second bold print:
What do you mean by depth cause I didn't find much depth in Transformers. actually I found all the characters to be very basic. Sadly the only character that I felt could have pushed the envelope [Bonecrusher] didn't get any real screen time. How I would have loved to explore his hate.

All comments are great and welcome. I agree that Michael can develop as a story teller but at the same time I don't think he has really done a film to allow him to push in self in that area. Actions aren't usually dramas, most studios want to keep you under 2 hrs. So there is little time to do a lot. Michael said he loves doing the big action films. In my opinion a lot of the films he has done are roller-coaster rind films, a lot of script is the setup into the fun parts, its rare that action films have great dramatic stories. Batman was good, but if you look at it as a whole it was probably more Drama then action and the Batman character is perfect for that. I think he did well with the Bad-Boy's francis, it was Action Comedy. I don't think those films could have been any better then what he did.

Island wasn't half bad, it wasn't popular because it was pretty hardcore sci-fi and people expected action. As a Sci-fi stroyline I think it was great and I thinks its a very under-rated film.

I think a Bay Superman would be = to the Rami-Spiderman and the Nolan-Batman, if Bay too the Alex Ross / Jim Lee approach to the character.

I think what Bay is best at is selling the film, in that I mean the way it is put together, I am sure if he did a serious dramatic piece it would surprise people, a good example is James Cameron.

Untimely though Directors should just do what they are passionate about. If he likes these action ride films then he should stick with it, nothing wrong with that because he really shines at it.

[Trailbreaker]

Yes. Bay = EPIC WIN.

Now wasn't it the writers who were responsible for the story?

[uraydo]

Yes. Bay = EPIC WIN.

Now wasn't it the writers who were responsible for the story?

yes, but in live action story can change quickly and in some cases, I think dramatically. Also, and I may be wrong on this, but can't the directer go to the writers with any problems and ask them to fix it?

[magjipro]

As for script vs making changes on set on thing to consider is the workings of movie making.

A budget is approved based on the script. Shooting days are laid out and all cost involved for the shoot. In many films you can't just change things on the fly, especially when producers and studios expect you to stick to the script.

So things that look good on script sometimes don't come across as good on the final cut. Thats where the director has to try to work the edit with what he's got.

Sometimes even scenes are shot that might help support the story more but in the edited cut the either drag the pacing or just don't fit right, thats why you see a lot of deleted scenes added to DVD releases.

Any movie you see enough you can take it a part, "The Dark Knight" was a great film, I love a lot of it, but seeing it 7 times in the theater in less then a months time I can start taking it apart fairly easily. I can even do this to my favorite dramatic films.

To me its more about the big pictures and how much you enjoy it over all. If you really love something, you let other things slide. Its rare to find something thats perfect. If it entertains I happy with spending the time watching it.

[katevonspooky]

"Michael Bay is one of the best and most successful directors in Hollywood. He makes money"

INTERPRETATION : Making money has nothing to do with good film making. Good film making is mostly about taking risks, not looking for a pot gold at the end of the rainbow.

"Now I am not trying to kiss his ass here, as an aspiring director I have much respect for this man and I hate to see the haters."

INTERPRETATION: Basically, you are kissing ass here.

"I know being the type of person that he is, he will push the bar from what he did in the first movie. His movies are fun and entertaining."

INTERPRETATION: Hitler also pushed the bar, and commited mass genocide. Triumph of Will was aslo fun and entertaining to the germans in 1935 . I might also add, Michael Bay was rejected from USC film school... much like Hitler was rejected from art school.

"Bottom line is what he does works, might not please everyone but the mass majority is happy and at the end of the day thats all that matter so arguments otherwise don't hold much weight."

INTERPRETATION: Those who disagree are inferior.

IN CONCLUSION: Remakes, sequels and unoriginal ideas are bad. And the people that support these false principles are naive to real threats to cinematic integrity and preservation.

[Trailbreaker]

*slaps face* Here we go again.

[Ed Fuego]

"Michael Bay is one of the best and most successful directors in Hollywood. He makes money"

INTERPRETATION : Making money has nothing to do with good film making. Good film making is mostly about taking risks, not looking for a pot gold at the end of the rainbow.

"Now I am not trying to kiss his ass here, as an aspiring director I have much respect for this man and I hate to see the haters."

INTERPRETATION: Basically, you are kissing ass here.

"I know being the type of person that he is, he will push the bar from what he did in the first movie. His movies are fun and entertaining."

INTERPRETATION: Hitler also pushed the bar, and commited mass genocide. Triumph of Will was aslo fun and entertaining to the germans in 1935 . I might also add, Michael Bay was rejected from USC film school... much like Hitler was rejected from art school.

"Bottom line is what he does works, might not please everyone but the mass majority is happy and at the end of the day thats all that matter so arguments otherwise don't hold much weight."

INTERPRETATION: Those who disagree are inferior.

IN CONCLUSION: Remakes, sequels and unoriginal ideas are bad. And the people that support these false principles are naive to real threats to cinematic integrity and preservation.

You just compared Michael Bay to Hilter. I have to admit, that's an original idea. A idiotic one, but no doubt about it, original.

Your interpretations are a stretch at best, ridiculous at worst, and your conclusion doesn't rationally follow from them.

That, actually, has been done before. Not really original, and therefore bad.

You know, when it comes to Michael Bay bashing, nothing surprises me anymore. That's kinda sad.

Ed Fuego

[katevonspooky]

Ed Fuego,
You said alot of neither here nor there nothings in four spaced out lines, not paragraphs. A Feeble attempt at making yourself look intellectual. What else can you really expect from a person that probably has a playmate as his avatar? It is really sad when your news comes from sports illustrated.


Kate Von Spooky,
Chapter leader, Rhode Island Horror Drunx
http://www.myspace.com/oceanstatehorrordrunx

[Michael Do]

wow, alot of horrordrunx idiots are invading this site. this should be interesting.

[r-type]

Herr Spooky,

Thank you for enlightening us. No really, from the bottom of my heart. From just two posts I can clearly see you are a person of discerning taste. Show us the way. Illuminate the path to film righteousness, with your ever so eloquent prose. Deliver us from our inferiority with tales of how such a concerted effort against a certain type of celluloid will make this world a better place.


Interpretation: Pompousness gets you nowhere, especially when talk is cheap. I'm not in the business of making such astute assumptions, like yourself, but I know for certain you aren't busy making the movies YOU want to see. Instead you're busy whining about the ones you don't. Best of luck with that.

[michaelbay]

Who is KATEVONSPOOKY?

You need to stand corrected - Actually I was accepted into USC. I chose Art Center College of Design.

I'm curious - what movies have you made?

[Ed Fuego]

Ed Fuego,
You said alot of neither here nor there nothings in four spaced out lines, not paragraphs. A Feeble attempt at making yourself look intellectual. What else can you really expect from a person that probably has a playmate as his avatar? It is really sad when your news comes from sports illustrated.


Kate Von Spooky,
Chapter leader, Rhode Island Horror Drunx
http://www.myspace.com/oceanstatehorrordrunx

Spaced out lines are a feeble attempt to look intellectual? I thought it was a method of organization.

Not a playmate, a Victoria's Secret model. I have to admit, I have no idea what my avatar has to do with your contention that my posts are unintelligent.

News, what news?! I suggested that your comparison of Michael Bay to Hitler is ridiculous and insulting. How is that news? And, I could read MAD magazine and come to that conclusion.

Ed Fuego

[uraydo]

Ed Fuego,
You said alot of neither here nor there nothings in four spaced out lines, not paragraphs. A Feeble attempt at making yourself look intellectual. What else can you really expect from a person that probably has a playmate as his avatar? It is really sad when your news comes from sports illustrated.


Kate Von Spooky,
Chapter leader, Rhode Island Horror Drunx
http://www.myspace.com/oceanstatehorrordrunx

well, since three people burned you (including Bay), I thought I would take your side.

I too (sorry, should I have skipped that line?) thank that good story telling in hollywood is on the decline. with such movies to look forward to as the sequel to Alvin and the chipmunks and fast and the furious 3, it's easy to see that good cinema is in trouble. I too share your pain and will aspire to be so cool I can type in red... Did you see that, I almost did it!

But you know, it's not the directors fault. First there is a script and the producers by the rights, and then they pitch it to directers. Some directers will take anything, but when you don't have a name for yourself, there really isn't much choice. Not everyone can direct Million Dollar Baby.

What I am saying is, shouldn't you be bashing writers?

[katevonspooky]

Who is KATEVONSPOOKY?

You need to stand corrected - Actually I was accepted into USC. I chose Art Center College of Design.

I'm curious - what movies have you made?

Michael Bay,
I am a Horror Drunx member. And maybe you should read our Horror Drunx Manifesto to learn a thing or two.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggggght...You were accepted to USC's film school.LOL.:wtf

BTW, Is it true you ran around Hollywood for years claiming John Frankenheimer was your dad? And do you still make these outlandish claims today after DNA testing has proved you to be absolutely wrong?

It sounds like you need a drink, or you have major psychological insecurities that prevent you from telling the truth.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." ---Joseph Goebbels

Kate Von Spooky,
Chapter leader, Rhode Island Horror Drunx
http://www.myspace.com/oceanstatehorrordrunx

[uraydo]

Michael Bay,
I am a Horror Drunx member. And maybe you should read our Horror Drunx Manifesto to learn a thing or two.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggggght...You were accepted to USC's film school.LOL.:wtf

BTW, Is it true you ran around Hollywood for years claiming John Frankenheimer was your dad? And do you still make these outlandish claims today after DNA testing has proved you to be absolutely wrong?

It sounds like you need a drink, or you have major psychological insecurities that prevent you from telling the truth.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." ---Joseph Goebbels

Kate Von Spooky,
Chapter leader, Rhode Island Horror Drunx
http://www.myspace.com/oceanstatehorrordrunx

That's it, I am no longer on your side. I'll be the first guy on here to support something that is not pro Bay, but what you are doing is just slander, and mean hearted. You aren't here to prove a point. Your here cause you want to be an ass, and that is not cool despite how many letters you can type in red.

and you know, you aren't as high and mighty as you think. everything you say about Bay I could match against your beloved horror movies and your ridiculous obsession with public drunkenness.

Seriously, I don't know who stuck that stick up your ass, but it's time to pull it out my friend. No one likes someone that goes around bashing people on the internet. Please, for your own sake, don't be that guy... No one likes that guy. Not even your mom.


Since you gave us a quote, I think I should give you one.

"...Learn how to love and forget how to hate. [or you'll be] going off the rails on a crazy train."

~Ozzy~

Spooky, please don't be cazy. Do it for me. Do it for your mom.

[Horrorgasm]

As I said in another folder, The Horror Drunx stance is simply that they want better movies, which does not mean remakes of stories that have been told before. What is wrong with wanting better movies? Anyone who has gone to a movie theater in the last several years and has been burned by an awful remake should want that too.

I suggested that your comparison of Michael Bay to Hitler is ridiculous and insulting.

Ed Fuego

In Kate's defense, someone here compared The Horror Drunx to the Ku Klux Klan in another folder.

It was said because I mentioned that the no remake stance is one that The Horror Drunx can't be budged from and warned to not instigate them or you might get swarmed on. What happened? My post was deleted, I was accused of threatening someone (which I wasn't doing), and lastly the topic was locked. But the name calling and slander from board members here was allowed to stay.

Nice way to greet a first time poster here.

You were warned, but this boards members and administrators incited a situation anyway... So now those who cast the first stone have no place acting buttsore and crying like infants when a stone is thrown back their way.

I don't think Kate is too concerned by Bay or anyone else here disagreeing with her at this point. She considers the source.

Now again, am I wrong when I say that people here do not want better movies and fresh original ideas on the screens of ther local theaters? Because that is what it is starting to sound like. The best way to make remakes go away is simple... Don't see remakes, boycott them, don't put a dime in the pockets of those who make them. As soon as it is no longer profitable, Hollywood's remake fever will stop.

Now if going to the source of a problem (Michael Bay for instance) to address it is the wrong place to go, where is the better place?

[Horrorgasm]

Who is KATEVONSPOOKY?

You need to stand corrected - Actually I was accepted into USC. I chose Art Center College of Design.

I'm curious - what movies have you made?

But you were rejected from the USC Film Department, correct? I think that was the point being made.

[Horrorgasm]

But you know, it's not the directors fault. First there is a script and the producers buy the rights, and then they pitch it to directers. Some directers will take anything, but when you don't have a name for yourself, there really isn't much choice.

Yes, there is a choice. The choice between having some integrity, or being a hack that is just doing it for the pay check. So what is Michael Bay's excuse? He doesn't need the money (he is a wealthy man by all reports), and with that sucess he can pick and choose his own projects which the people in his own production company can then find financial backers for... Yet he chooses to make remakes so it must just be for the money. Pardon me while I clear my throat. :::HACK-HACK!:::

What I am saying is, shouldn't you be bashing writers?

Writers who accept the assignment to script a remake can be considered hacks as well. Don't think that the remake idea originated with the writer, no one writes a spec remake... The producer has to buy the legal rights, to secure them, before the first word of a screenplay is ever written. Learn how the business works before talking about it in an authorative tone.

I have known several writers, some established and some just starting their careers, who have turned down scripting remakes. One of them (and he is an amazing writer) has turned down five such assignments in the last two years and sleeps well at night knowing he has not whored out his artistic talents by making some Faustian deal.

[uraydo]

As I said in another folder, The Horror Drunx stance is simply that they want better movies, which does not mean remakes of stories that have been told before. What is wrong with wanting better movies? Anyone who has gone to a movie theater in the last several years and has been burned by an awful remake should want that too.



In Kate's defense, someone here compared The Horror Drunx to the Ku Klux Klan in another folder.

It was said because I mentioned that the no remake stance is one that The Horror Drunx can't be budged from and warned to not instigate them or you might get swarmed on. What happened? My post was deleted, I was accused of threatening someone (which I wasn't doing), and lastly the topic was locked. But the name calling and slander from board members here was allowed to stay.

Nice way to greet a first time poster here.

You were warned, but this boards members and administrators incited a situation anyway... So now those who cast the first stone have no place acting buttsore and crying like infants when a stone is thrown back their way.

I don't think Kate is too concerned by Bay or anyone else here disagreeing with her at this point. She considers the source.

Now again, am I wrong when I say that people here do not want better movies and fresh original ideas on the screens of ther local theaters? Because that is what it is starting to sound like. The best way to make remakes go away is simple... Don't see remakes, boycott them, don't put a dime in the pockets of those who make them. As soon as it is no longer profitable, Hollywood's remake fever will stop.

Now if going to the source of a problem (Michael Bay for instance) to address it is the wrong place to go, where is the better place?

You had me until the bold. What movies, aside form the Island (which was terrible) was a remake? I'll be the first one here that will tell you that Micheal needs to grow as a story teller, but his visuals are second to none, and his fast pace editing challenges the view to keep up with ride. for action movies, that's some pretty good stuff. And Transformers, despite a crappy script, pushed visuals to a whole other level. Now if Bay can match those visuals with Great story telling, then there is no reason it won't be one of the greatest action flicks of all time.

But you were rejected from the USC Film Department, correct? I think that was the point being made.

until you can post a source for that info, I suggest you drop it... it makes you look desperate. Plus, even if it was true, when did a school ever know what the hell they were doing? I'm in senor project and I'm still trying to make up for deficiencies in my education. and I go to SCAD!

Yes, there is a choice. The choice between having some integrity, or being a hack that is just doing it for the pay check. So what is Michael Bay's excuse? He doesn't need the money (he is a wealthy man by all reports), and with that sucess he can pick and choose his own projects which the people in his own production company can then find financial backers for... Yet he chooses to make remakes so it must just be for the money. Pardon me while I clear my throat. :::HACK-HACK!:::



Writers who accept the assignment to script a remake can be considered hacks as well. Don't think that the remake idea originated with the writer, no one writes a spec remake... The producer has to buy the legal rights, to secure them, before the first word of a screenplay is ever written. Learn how the business works before talking about it in an authorative tone.

I have known several writers, some established and some just starting their careers, who have turned down scripting remakes. One of them (and he is an amazing writer) has turned down five such assignments in the last two years and sleeps well at night knowing he has not whored out his artistic talents by making some Faustian deal.

As an Artist, Michael Bay only has to answer to two powers. Himself and the people who buy his art. He loves his work, and his patrons love his work. I'm sorry, I don't see where you get hack form that. Again, I don't think he has made the best movies ever, but do appreciate the unique skills he brings to the table, and I will continue to urge him in perfecting his craft.

There are many artist out there that I don't agree with. and many of those, I hate there work. But as artist, we all have our place. If I didn't believe that, I would quit now. The SOLUTION to you your problem is not to try to destroy what you don't like, but rather drown it out with something better. If there is more better art, the bad art won't seem so abundant. The answer is never to restrict art. That would be like the Comic book artist that went to jail down in flordia... for drawing comics. (that really happened. It was in my Sequential art book, I don't remember his name. )

Dude, I'm on your side. I love progress, but coming on this board and being as disagreeable as Spooky was, will only make you seem like a nut. If you have something bad to say about Bay, Say it! I do. Ask any one here. How many times have I said that not a single damn character in Transformers had any depth? But please, back up what you say. All you and spooky are doing right now is destroying over a year of my hard work to make these people see that Bay has flaws. He is not the end all be all. and right now, he has control of my favorite property of all time.

[katevonspooky]

"Dude, I'm on your side. I love progress, but coming on this board and being as disagreeable as Spooky was, will only make you seem like a nut. If you have something bad to say about Bay, Say it! I do. Ask any one here. How many times have I said that not a single damn character in Transformers had any depth? But please, back up what you say. All you and spooky are doing right now is destroying over a year of my hard work to make these people see that Bay has flaws. He is not the end all be all. and right now, he has control of my favorite property of all time." ---Uraydo

INTERPRETATION: You are such a softie in your approach. You do know it is bad when you are hearing this from a girl, right?


Appeasement is not an option for us. And what "hard work" have to put into fighting the good fight like the HD does on a daily basis? You only really care about a Transformers movie.It's all about you. We are talking about the bigger picture here. Can you grasp that simple concept without bloviating all over yourself?

Now...Let's move away from the sheep and go straight to the sheep herder himself.


I still invite Michael to address my John Frankenheimer questions.




The non-buying public needs answers.




Kate Von Spooky,
Chapter leader, Rhode Island Horror Drunx
http://www.myspace.com/oceanstatehorrordrunx

[Horrorgasm]

You had me until the bold. What movies, aside form the Island (which was terrible) was a remake?

THE AMITYVILLE HORROR (Producer)
TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE (Producer)
FRIDAY THE 13TH (PRODUCER)
A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (PRODUCER)
THE HITCHER (PRODUCER)
THE BIRDS (ANNOUNCED IN DEVELOPMENT)
ROSEMARY'S BABY (ANNOUNCED IN DEVELOPMENT)

Wait, and apologies if I'm misunderstandng here, but you pass yourself off as a film student and film maker and didn't know those were remakes?!! I could completely rest my case on that alone. If I'm correct, please change careers immediately.

THE ISLAND was actually more of a blatant rip-off of LOGAN'S RUN (with a wee bit of Blade Runner) than a remake. Again, unoriginal and derivative. Had I been George Clayton Johnson (the writer of Logan's Run), I'd have filed a lawsuit... Just like when Harlan Ellison sued (and won) the case against James Cameron for blatantly stealing THE TERMINATOR.

Shall I continue?

until you can post a source for that info, I suggest you drop it... it makes you look desperate.

Not only is it now appearing on his IMDB page, it has appeared printed several other places in the past.

As an Artist, Michael Bay only has to answer to two powers. Himself and the people who buy his art.

True artists only answer to their own tastes...Then if it finds an audience, all the better. Bay's "Art by the yard" approach is done to pander to the masses and though it takes some skill it is still souless and done only for profit, not any true artistic desire. Art By The Yard BTW are paintings done assembly line fashion. is mass produced, and is most often seen hanging on the walls of cheap motels. While I have nothing against paint-by-numbers kits, if I PAY to enter a museum I expect to see something more original. ...Not a remake.

Though film is a collaborative effort, if someone takes possession of it as "A MICHAEL BAY PRODUCTION" or "A MICHAEL BAY FILM" they take it upon themselves to answer to the entire sh-bang.