Matt Damon is an IDIOT

[BeetleJuice]

Alright people another very divisive subject: schools and guns.
I haven't looked at Barack Obama's policies on the NRA or self defense, but as a liberal he's likely against firearms.
This is in Texas: http://www.openeducation.net/2008/08...-cowboy-image/

School Gun-Free Zones the Problem
Lest there be any doubt about his viewpoints on the matter, David Thweatt offered the following comments:

“When the federal government started making schools gun-free zones, that’s when all of these shootings started. Why would you put it out there that a group of people can’t defend themselves? That’s like saying ’sic ‘em’ to a dog.”
While Thweatt insisted that the school district has other security measures in place to prevent a school shooting, he noted:
“We have a lock-down situation, we have cameras, but the question we had to answer is, ‘What if somebody gets in?’ What are we going to do? It’s just common sense.”


I'm not advocating this at a widespread national level, but in some cases it seems logical.
If anything, armed guards throughout every high school would help. Americans should be trusted to defend themselves.

[Trailbreaker]

And we should also be trusted to prevent disasters like school shootings from happening.

[BeetleJuice]

And we should also be trusted to prevent disasters like school shootings from happening.

It's actually the kind of debate that goes beyond politics. A school shooting can't be predicted.
There are so many reasons not to allow guns in school, but sometimes(maybe in rough areas) it could seem logical.
It works both ways, imagine a schoolkid grabbing a teachers gun and shooting a classmate by accident, it would be stupid.
Do school shootings happen often enough to justify those kind of measures?
The same can be said about associations that demand the ban of violent video games on the basis of a couple of student murders, it makes no sense.
You can't always predict murder before it happens.

[Trailbreaker]

It's actually the kind of debate that goes beyond politics. A school shooting can't be predicted.
There are so many reasons not to allow guns in school, but sometimes(maybe in rough areas) it could seem logical.
It works both ways, imagine a schoolkid grabbing a teachers gun and shooting a classmate by accident, it would be stupid.
Do school shootings happen often enough to justify those kind of measures?
The same can be said about associations that demand the ban of violent video games on the basis of a couple of student murders, it makes no sense.
You can't always predict murder before it happens.

School shootings aren't always related to video games. Many shootings you hear about are related to hate and discrimination. Columbine was one of them. Apparently one of the shooters used Darwin's Natural Selection theory to justify something Hitler would do. Video games aren't the reason for the killing of innocent lives. It's discrimination.

[ScarCrow28]

That is completely absurd. I'd bet money that no honest study of these school shooting cases can provide any evidence that a "gun-free zone" is what caused these shootings.

I work for the 11th largest school district in the country. And the last thing I want to know is that a high school full of puberty hormon-ed students are carrying weapons of any kind when I visit a school. That is just asking for trouble. Students get into fights. That is just a fact. Allow them to have easier access to guns on school grounds and you're not helping the situation. Your asking for more trouble.

Armed guards at every high school? Seriously? The USA is not a military dictatorship. Schools are not a military compound. Schools in my district already have armed police officers at every school campus but they do not act as guards. They are a means of security without trying to scare the students.

And this doesn't even take into account the cost of such a program for competent armed guards. Especially in a current economy where budgets are being slashed by the millions. We've already undergone a 80 million dollar budget cut for this year. Expect another 30+ million to be cut by for the next fiscal school year.

No one has received any kind of raise this year. When you work for the school system in FL. You don't get performance raises. Only cost of living raises once a year. While our cost of living has skyrocketed, some people find themselves without a job at all.

Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of employees have been laid off. Including many teachers. We have even undergone a hugely controversial school start time swap between high schools and middle schools simply because it saves the district about 3 million dollars. Thats how shoestring we are right now with our budget. And it will get worse next year.

Our universities and colleges in the USA are held with high regard. But IMO our public education system is in very poor shape. Why the hell are schools still using textbooks and have only dedicated "computer labs" when we have been a computer operated world for over two decades now? Technology, which is undoubtedly the future of the world economy is practically non existent in our schools. It is a disgrace to ourselves when we as a country are unwilling to properly prepare our citizens. The blame for this is not partisan. It is the country as a whole.

But while republicans love to gloat about cutting taxes, and our citizens jump to the illusions of more money in their pocket, society fails to realize one key thing.

You pay for cheap government. You get cheap government.

Pay for cheap education, we get cheap education. Must be why the rich PAY for private schooling..... Sure you can think that you should not be required to pay for the "poor's" education. But don't forget that the very population which you wish to neglect on education (and health care) are the very population that keeps you rich. They go down. The rich go down. Like it or not. the country is united as one force. And not just for war. In the meantime, India and other wealthy economy continue to buyout American corporations and american property right out from under our feet. Once a mighty world power we are being defeated financially from the inside out. And its our own damn fault as a country for letting it happen. instead of working together as a team, we run our country as every man for himself.

Doesn't anybody pay attention to sports? Teamwork wins Duh! Even the military relies on teamwork. Yet we choose to neglect our citizens on health care because my republican friend believes that he should not be held responsible for a welfare addict's medical bills. yet we have one of the worst health care systems in the world... which affects more then just the welfare addict.

I've had my fill of a republican economy. It's not working. Eventually the tax cut illusions catch up with us and we realize we are now paying more out of our pockets then we were before. We fail to realize the long term effects of our short term personal greed.



Sorry dude, you unleashed a sleeping dragon in me when you bring up schools. ;~)

[Trailbreaker]

My mom is a teacher so I know first hand that its not working.

[Beej]

That is so cool.
What do you have?
I've got a glock 19. The power of God in my hands... love it!!!:lol
(BTW, I'm not a psychopath, so no insults please)

Really, you're not? Good to know. Was wondering after that whole, "G-d in my hands" comment.
What I got is registered, kept clean and put away nice like.

[Chip]

I personally do not feel it is the "Gun Free Zone" or violent video games that has caused the perceived increase in school shootings. Let us not forget about the University of Texas in 1966. There certainly were no violent video games at the time.
As long as we sensationalize something, we increase the attractiveness of it to others. Why were little girls wearing thongs and dressing like whores, Britney and Paris. How do we know about them...they varying forms of media that exist.
Take police chases for instance. They didn't suddenly begin when OJ decided to take his Bronco (I love the truck btw) for a joy ride to Mexico. But it got blown out of proportion and...BOOM! Our California friends can best support this one. How many chases did you see on a daily basis sine 1995?
I really don't think the problem with the school shootings has anything to do with gun control or school policy. Although I am a news nut, the blame on this one goes directly to the media. That's my 2-cents.

[nelson]

Providing an partial Answer to Matt Damon questions.

This NYTimes article explores Gov. Palin's record in Alaska.

In Office, Palin Hired Friends and Lashed Critics

note: if you get a login screen trying to view article. Delete all browser cookies related to NYTimes and it will show the article upon refresh.

Great article: if elected, McCAin/Palin will be more vindictive that the current administration and a 3rd extension of the Bush term.

[nelson]

But look, corporations made America, Obama is zig-zagging strangely on the economy.

Actually, the early part of this country was built on the back of black slaves. Then came the indsutrial revolution.

Just because corporations helped America doesn't mean they should get a free pass. If they are outsourcing American jobs then they should be heavily fined. If try to incorporated in the Bahamas in order to take advantage of tax loopholes while the American people picked up the tab, they should be fined and prosecuted.

Obama attended the Chicago School of economics. If you didn't know it's widely known as the intellectual centre of modern American economic conservatism.

Yes, but even they agree the current economic policies aren't working.

They believe individuals making separate decisions always function better than government managed economies.

To a certain point. That's why we have and should always have a system of checks and balances.

Obama himself has agreed with Reaganism, great.

Uhm, no. He said he would like to empower the Democratic party like Reagan did with his policies. He did not say he liked those polices. Trickle-down economics anyone?

If Obama is elected, hope he's a pragmatist, otherwise some of us are in serious shit, if the more hard line pro trade barrier people have their way.

How much ore of serious shit can we be in than right now? We are lip-deep in shit right now.

If you look throughout history, economies usually do better when there's a Democratic president at the White House (Carter being the exception as Ford screwed it up so bad there was no hope).

[nelson]

But while republicans love to gloat about cutting taxes, and our citizens jump to the illusions of more money in their pocket, society fails to realize one key thing.

You pay for cheap government. You get cheap government.

Pay for cheap education, we get cheap education. Must be why the rich PAY for private schooling..... Sure you can think that you should not be required to pay for the "poor's" education. But don't forget that the very population which you wish to neglect on education (and health care) are the very population that keeps you rich. They go down. The rich go down. Like it or not. the country is united as one force. And not just for war. In the meantime, India and other wealthy economy continue to buyout American corporations and american property right out from under our feet. Once a mighty world power we are being defeated financially from the inside out. And its our own damn fault as a country for letting it happen. instead of working together as a team, we run our country as every man for himself.

Doesn't anybody pay attention to sports? Teamwork wins Duh! Even the military relies on teamwork. Yet we choose to neglect our citizens on health care because my republican friend believes that he should not be held responsible for a welfare addict's medical bills. yet we have one of the worst health care systems in the world... which affects more then just the welfare addict.

I've had my fill of a republican economy. It's not working. Eventually the tax cut illusions catch up with us and we realize we are now paying more out of our pockets then we were before. We fail to realize the long term effects of our short term personal greed.



Sorry dude, you unleashed a sleeping dragon in me when you bring up schools. ;~)

I was recently in FLorida (this last week) and lots of friends who are teachers echoed you.

You hit the nail right on the head: You pay for cheap government. You get cheap government.

Florida, if IRC, is last or 2nd to last in test scores in the nation. I know people that work 3 jobs just to send their kids to private schools because they're afraid their kids might end up stupid.

Florida does not collect state income tax, hence they have to search for other avenues to collect money for the state's infra structure, education, social and medical programs. High property taxes are killing people. One example is a family with a house valued at $125,000 who are paying about $9,000 a year in property tax. THAT IS MURDER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS. I know people here in Massachusetts who have houses worth $900,000 and barely pay $5,000 a year for property tax.

It said that the people who believe in these tax cuts for the rich and vote for these politicians vote against their own interest. They never see a dime of tax savings.

[nelson]

I believe in gun laws. I believe gun laws should be different from state to state. Montana's gun's laws shouldn't apply to those of NY or vice-versa.

I don't believe in arming ourselves to the teeth. We will never eliminate murders. Just ask the world's most armed and secure country: Israel.

We should address the core issues that bring on the homicidal behavior. While some of it is mental, a lot of it is poverty driven and social causes.

[megatron42]

to quote lou dobbs don't we deserve a government that works

[Trailbreaker]

Is it common sense that the people that can afford to pay taxes receive tax exempts while the ones who struggle just to fuel their vehicle be stuck paying such taxes?

[Chip]

I think we can all agree that no one wants to pay more taxes. Yet, no one wants cheap government. It's like putting used tires on your car...you're just asking for trouble.

[ScarCrow28]

I feel that first society must come to terms that taxes are not evil. The word itself "taxes" immediately strike negative thinking in the minds of people everywhere. The problem is not that we have taxes at all. The problem is that we don't have the balance of what we pay in taxes to what we get in return, and who pays how much.

The United States Government is meant to serve the citizens. Taxes are the service fee we pay for the services we receive. When you pay your Netflix monthly fee, you know that you expect a certain type of service. And you are happy to oblige because that service is satisfactory to what you expect to get back. If we look at our US Government in the same way, our attitudes change towards that government. Instead of thinking that government is robbing us our our own money, we might just realize that taxes are an investment into our country's government. And from this investment we expect to see a service in return. Without this service fee, we have no highways, no police force, no military, no education for our citizens and so on.

If we look at government as an investment into our own lives, we then change our attitudes. Government is no longer the enemy. Because government is there to work for us instead of against us. This is the fundamental root of the creation of our government. Yet it seems our modern society has forgotten this. At least it seems the republican party's core beliefs echo this. And yet they love the military..... go figure.

When we realize the investment we put into government ultimately benefits us, we are less likely to cut our own throats by voting solely for tax cut politicians. Instead we pay attention to who gets those tax cuts? Then who pays for the services we receive now? What new services do we want to see from our government? How do we honestly balance the cost of these services with the fees we pay?


***
IMO We need a government controlled health care system. If you are in the military you get free health care. EVERYTHING is covered. Why can't this service be extended to our citizens? It is working elsewhere in the world. And it works within our own military. A government controlled health care system does not represent communism or any other poor excuse, people make up. Because our government works for us. WE OWN IT! We are not run by a dictator. If things don't work we have the right to change it.

I would gladly pay a service fee a health care system such as this. Because in the long run it means I will have a better quality of life.

Our current health care system is not working. We don't let our military become controlled solely by corporations and shareholders, so why are we letting our health care system? It's obviously not working when you find that even those wealthy who can afford top notch health care, do not always get the service they expect to receive in return. Why is that? Because it would cost too much to greedy shareholders. The current health care system abuses our citizens. Yet we don't want to change the way it works.

And no, a government controlled health care system is not the end all solution. We must not make the same mistakes we are currently making with our public education system. It all comes down to attitude effecting the decisions we make. And our priorities as a society, the foresight into the future of our decisions, the investments we make into that future.

Leave it to the good ol US of A to shoot ourselves in the foot over and over again.

[Beej]

Taxes, government, Dems, GOP, blah, blah, blah...

Still comes down to personal responsibility. A corporation isn't a beast, it's run by individuals. Individuals who make a decision each day to do no harm, or to be greedy. Same goes for government. Same goes for any school. Same goes for each house, each relationship, and so on.

Do unto others, or the golden rule, still applies. You can point at everyone else and say they are wrong, they are horrible, they are oblivious, they are intolerant, but first you have to look into the mirror and own up each and every day. Some days you win, some days not so much. But none of us is upstanding 100% every minute of the day as we all have flaws.

My point is simple, at the job, you want the best raise, the most money as it is a reflection of your worth, but what if you didn't take all the marbles on the table, what if you were reasonable and left some for others to share? That ain't going to happen unless you're Mother Teresa. I don't see any saints in office, or applying for office, or running the corporations, or in my own mirror. We all want the best and we all want to win. But we can try to be better, but that' a personal mission, and one that cannot be forced upon anyone. It is part of who we are.

(Go Broncos!...Sorry, game's on.)

[BeetleJuice]

Actually, the early part of this country was built on the back of black slaves. Then came the indsutrial revolution.
Just because corporations helped America doesn't mean they should get a free pass. If they are outsourcing American jobs then they should be heavily fined. If try to incorporated in the Bahamas in order to take advantage of tax loopholes while the American people picked up the tab, they should be fined and prosecuted.
Yes, but even they agree the current economic policies aren't working.
To a certain point. That's why we have and should always have a system of checks and balances.
Uhm, no. He said he would like to empower the Democratic party like Reagan did with his policies. He did not say he liked those polices. Trickle-down economics anyone?
How much ore of serious shit can we be in than right now? We are lip-deep in shit right now.
If you look throughout history, economies usually do better when there's a Democratic president at the White House (Carter being the exception as Ford screwed it up so bad there was no hope).

Outsourcing is cheaper, more effective.
America’s problem is schooling, it’s all about new technologies today, this country has too many attorneys, law students and so on. We’re not producing the right skills, I agree with Obama on that issue. But it costs money, a lot of money.
Harvard is totally split between positive psychology(yuurk!!!), and introductory economics, I don’t understand people forking out $50 000 on psychology.
The best minds are in economics, the more idealistic lefty political minded guys go into government, psychology and so on, it’s not what this country needs. We need people that can work in math, science, and technology. Greg Mankiw says the study of economics turns you conservative, he’s right.
Jason Furman was a good pick by Obama, he agrees with Charlie Rangel's proposed corporate income tax cut(can’t remember the numbers, but it's something like 35% down to 30%). That’s what I call pragmatism.
Barack Obama seems to be appealing to the bottom half of this county, whilst permanently contradicting himself on the economy.
Is he a liberal or not? His supporters could be disappointed if he’s a realist.
Anyway it’s all politics, whatever happens there will be winners and losers, that’s how it always works.

[elemental fantasy]

This is a big fuckin thread....

[BeetleJuice]

(Carter being the exception as Ford screwed it up so bad there was no hope).

Jimmy Carter was an idiot, and a coward.

[Trailbreaker]

If taxes were associated with evil then they are a necessary evil.

[BeetleJuice]

If you want some doom and gloom, back in the 19th century a guy named Thomas Malthus predicted that the worlds population growth would outstrip our supply of food. He said famine, war, disease would eventually limit the population of Europe.
Someone can check the numbers, but I think two thirds of the world population survives today on less than $5 a day. That's about 4 billion people.
But think of it this way, capitalism could be the ultimate medicine for all the worlds problems.
How about this: Enterprise Solutions to Poverty. I can't remember the guy who originally came up with the quote, but the theory is money can be made correcting poverty, through innovation.
The game will always be to innovate, and sell goods to more people.

[BeetleJuice]

If taxes were associated with evil then they are a necessary evil.

sniff... *wiping the tears from my eyes*

[Chip]

Awe shit...Nelson is going to explode. I am just thrikked that you guys are keeping this apparently private debate out in the open for all of us to see.

[Trailbreaker]

Awe shit...Nelson is going to explode. I am just thrikked that you guys are keeping this apparently private debate out in the open for all of us to see.

Nelson was on earlier, but never replied. I think he's gonna come up with the ultimate comeback.