What makes Bay great? (err...awesome) ;)

[nelson]

To say that cinema is merely business, just a way of making big money, is insulting.

He didn't say it applies to ALL cinema. But mainstream Hollywood is called show business for a reason. To not acknowledge would be naive.

Nowhere does he mention why he wants to remake Rosemary's Baby, a classic at the time of its release. All he can do is talk money. Cinema is an art, and I'm sorry some of us feel that way, but there it is. Good cinema is priceless.

To certain degree, it's business. I doubted Roman Polanski would've done the original one for free. I doubted Bay is speaking of cinema from the angle which you're referring to.

Bay is talking about exploitation, making money from the largest amount of people possible. Honestly, if that's his game, then he's no better than Hugh Hefner.

There's a place and a time for everything. There's a place for art house and then there's a place for entertainment cinema. Comparing Playboy to movies is ridiculous.

Btw, he's entitled to have a personal opinion about Iraq, but I have no idea why he mentioned it. And what the hell it has to do with cinema?!!!

That's there more important things to worry about than a movie remake?

[BeetleJuice]

First off, I'm a big Michael Bay fan. Let's get this straight, I loved Transformers for what it was, a massive action packed thrilling ride, with great humor too. Armageddon was also greatly entertaining. The visuals, the music, all Michael Bay films are highly enjoyable. I love them all.
And again, I'm not trolling or looking for attention from any of you guys. And I don't expect to be banned for daring to criticise Michael Bay. I don't want to insult anyone.
But I stand by my first post. I didn't twist his words, Bay wrote them. The danger of the Internet is not that guys like me twist words, the danger is that when you write something, a lot of people can read it.

Why not? How many people your age remember the film?

Is this a joke?!! He presumes to know the original posters age. I guess he thinks he's young, and young people don't watch old cult movies. What was I thinking?!! or maybe he thought he was an old guy with amnesia... also very insulting.

The original poster was talking about Rosemary's Baby, Bay deflected this and diverted to Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

It only became a "classic" in revisionist critics history. Why don't you read the reviews from back then?

Of course... again I'm sorry. The evil film critics decided Texas Chainsaw Massacre was going to be a classic. We all know most people can't decide for themselves... Have you ever heard of word of mouth? It's what you get when one guy sees a cool film, and then tells another to go see it, and so on... until after some time, you have a cult classic movie.

The people who saw the Texas I produced, never saw the original Texas

Yup... I don't know what to say, that is a big assumption. Maybe cinema was born with Bay, you know, how about... BB(before Bay), and AB(after Bay)... so I admit I saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre BB, but we all know movies weren't good back then, so all hail Texas AB!!!

When are you people out here going to realize this is a business?

I don't understand... When I buy my ticket, I hand over 10$, the guy gives me a little paper cut out in return... I guessed the money was going somewhere, I couldn't quite figure out until now... jeez... Thanks Mr Bay! You just taught me something! Respect.

Platinum Dunes is my side business. It is a business where I make a lot of money

I don't know what others think of this, but I see a film making huge amounts of money, I like to believe the filmmakers will reinvest that cash into other movies, and we will continue being entertained by more movies, and everyone is happy. Now maybe it isn't what Mr Bay meant, but that remark sounded like it was coming from a greedy, money obsessed person. It was unpleasant.

You want to talk about injustices in this world - then start talking about why the fuck we are in Iraq - that's an injustice. People out here feel films are sacred - it's simply entertainment - relax - fight about cry about stuff that is more important in the world.

Yes, something we all agree on, all the horrors of this world are far more important than any film, or entertainment whatsoever. But that doesn't mean you can't care about the movies you love. Films have a sentimental value for some people. It's insulting to disregard that. I also don't think Michael Bay would find it funny if in 30 years time some guy came along and remade Transformers, Armageddon or Bad Boys.

Once more, that was a personal take on Bay's post, some people aren't offended by his remarks, that's OK. But don't get upset or aggrieved when others take exception to his words. I simply posted to show I didn't agree, and I felt it necessary. Peace out.

[redqueenar]

Well, LadiesMan217 was being addressed, or so I thought, and he is twenty years old. It's stated clearly in his user profile. Texas Chainsaw Massacre was released in 1974 when neither he, nor I at 27, were a so much as a glimmer in our mamma's eye. The "people" he refers to are us, the teenagers for whom he *always* claimed to make his films. (The Rock made it a sweet sixteen for me, thanks)

And I think the reason he "switched" from Rosemary's Baby to TCM was to point out the production company's previous record of success with horror remakes. It wasn't devious, he was just pointing the conversation toward hard evidence.

And they already did remake Armageddon! It was called The Core or something...

[BeetleJuice]

Comparing Playboy to movies is ridiculous.

No it isn't.
Playboy: worthless shit that sells due to it's huge demand and popularity, regardless of it's quality. It appeals to the animalistic side of men. Very large distribution that floods the market and kills of competition.

Successful bad movies: Popular stories, sometimes remakes, coupled with aggressive marketing, and again huge distribution. Makes huge amounts of money in first weekend. Suffers heavy collapse on the second weekend. Unfortunately high DVD sales due again to lack of competition and huge marketing.

Morality? Shit sells, if you wrap it in pretty paper with a cute ribbon

[redqueenar]

No it isn't.
Playboy: worthless shit that sells due to it's huge demand and popularity, regardless of it's quality. It appeals to the animistic side of men. Very large distribution that floods the market and kills of competition.

Now who's making assumptions?? Dude! Wrong! Click here and educate yourself. Playboy has a silly public face at times, but don't call it a rag until you've read it.

And this one, too!

[BeetleJuice]

Well, LadiesMan217 was being addressed, or so I thought, and he is twenty years old. It's stated clearly in his user profile. Texas Chainsaw Massacre was released in 1974 when neither he, nor I at 27, were a so much as a glimmer in our mamma's eye. The "people" he refers to are us, the teenagers for whom he *always* claimed to make his films. (The Rock made it a sweet sixteen for me, thanks)

And I think the reason he "switched" from Rosemary's Baby to TCM was to point out the production company's previous record of success with horror remakes. It wasn't devious, he was just pointing the conversation toward hard evidence.

And they already did remake Armageddon! It was called The Core or something...

Not to be argumentative, but he first replied analytical cinema on the ask Michael Bay section. It was funny he guessed that persons age.
He was referring to young movie goers, and yes we haven't all seen the old films. His productions obviously have to be accessible to a wider audience.
Only I don't think Rosemary's Baby and Texas Chainsaw are comparable.

Armageddon was actually remade before it was even released... Deep Impact, they stole story ideas from Bay's film!!!

[redqueenar]

Not to be argumentative, but he first replied analytical cinema on the ask Michael Bay section.

Oh, you're right about that. Mea culpa.

[Beej]

Morality? Shit sells, if you wrap it in pretty paper with a cute ribbon

True. There is a market for Twinkies, Ding Dongs, and Ho-Hos. Oh, and shit rises to the top, so, what was the point, again?

Beetle, I don't disagree with you very often...okay, to date nothing comes to mind, but you are going to lose that arguement on men, animalissszm, and Playboy, and like hey, what about Playgirl? Is that still around? Recalling the time Bob Chandler (may he RIP), was the centerfold. Okay, probably before your time, he was wide reciever w/Bills, then Raiders where he got a Superbowl ring (back then they used stickum), etc., anyway, the center folded and stapled so you didn't see nuttin (was the early 80s). Playboy and remakes are just not even apples and oranges. Although if Freddy were to enter male teens dreaming of Playmates (naw, too easy). Okay, digressing rapidly...

Why is this a conversation? Oh, yeah remakes... half of us don't even know what is being missed in the last 15 years let alone hold it to some high ideal... case in point, I was looking up movies to rent and I've been watching those starring Richard Widmark and/or Charlton Heston (last weekend was Ben-Hur), and in between "The Greatest Show on Earth" and "Airport 1975" was "Armegeddon" -- "I was like, why is that there, he wasn't in that." But he was, he was the narrator (still not recalling that). I was shocked. R-Type and RedQueen were like, yeah, dumbass, you missed it (actually they were very kind about my mental failure). So, even me, big fan of CH, and always feeling like I could pick up on the voices -- big miss. But it'll get me to watch it again just to catch that performance.

Now let's talk reality programming and how I'm not smarter than a 5th grader (I'm not, I keep losing); no wait, how about what the heck is going on with all of this money (are that at a billion each now?) in spending on the U.S. political campaigns? Or we could stay on topic... Is Bay great, er awesome? I've no idea about his awesomeness per se, but I like his work, so, Bee, opening up a bee, er hornet's nest, what else you got? I'm game.

Edit: It is so wierd seeing Jamie Lee Curtis on the cover of the AARP magazine... time flies.

[redqueenar]

True. There is a market for Twinkies, Ding Dongs, and Ho-Hos. Oh, and shit rises to the top, so, what was the point, again?

Beetle, I don't disagree with you very often...okay, to date nothing comes to mind, but you are going to lose that arguement on men, animalissszm, and Playboy, and like hey, what about Playgirl? Is that still around? Recalling the time Bob Chandler (may he RIP), was the centerfold. Okay, probably before your time, he was wide reciever w/Bills, then Raiders where he got a Superbowl ring (back then they used stickum), etc., anyway, the center folded and stapled so you didn't see nuttin (was the early 80s). Playboy and remakes are just not even apples and oranges. Although if Freddy were to enter male teens dreaming of Playmates (naw, too easy). Okay, digressing rapidly...

Why is this a conversation? Oh, yeah remakes... half of us don't even know what is being missed in the last 15 years let alone hold it to some high ideal... case in point, I was looking up movies to rent and I've been watching those starring Richard Widmark and/or Charlton Heston (last weekend was Ben-Hur), and in between "The Greatest Show on Earth" and "Airport 1975" was "Armegeddon" -- "I was like, why is that there, he wasn't in that." But he was, he was the narrator (still not recalling that). I was shocked. R-Type and RedQueen were like, yeah, dumbass, you missed it (actually they were very kind about my mental failure). So, even me, big fan of CH, and always feeling like I could pick up on the voices -- big miss. But it'll get me to watch it again just to catch that performance.

Now let's talk reality programming and how I'm not smarter than a 5th grader (I'm not, I keep losing); no wait, how about what the heck is going on with all of this money (are that at a billion each now?) in spending on the U.S. political campaigns? Or we could stay on topic... Is Bay great, er awesome? I've no idea about his awesomeness per se, but I like his work, so, Bee, opening up a bee, er hornet's nest, what else you got? I'm game.

Edit: It is so wierd seeing Jamie Lee Curtis on the cover of the AARP magazine... time flies.

I would never, ever call you a dumbass, Beej! And I must reiterate my earlier statement about Playboy's intelligence. Don't confuse Hefner with Larry Flynt, now THAT'S apples and oranges...

[LadiesMan217]

It only became a "classic" in revisionist critics history. Why don't you read the reviews from back then?

Of course... again I'm sorry. The evil film critics decided Texas Chainsaw Massacre was going to be a classic. We all know most people can't decide for themselves... Have you ever heard of word of mouth? It's what you get when one guy sees a cool film, and then tells another to go see it, and so on... until after some time, you have a cult classic movie.

That was really the case. Although, if I remember correcly the original TCM was actually the highest-grossing independent movie of all time up to that point. The makers never got to see any money though because the movie was basically distributed by the mafia. I do think Michael knows about word of mouth btw - a big reason his movies are making the business they're doing, moreso than Leonard Maltin giving it a positive review. Pretty strange hearing Michael saying "Read the reviews!" Isn't it funny though how critics decades ago trashed the fuck out of movies that we now consider to be some of the greatest of all time. Directors like Stanley Kubrick usually got shit reviews; someone said 2001 was the biggest amateur movie ever made, Barry Lyndon was boring and flat as hell and The Shining just a piss-poor adaptation of King's book. Psycho got terrible reviews but mainly for the reason that the critics actually had to pay to see the flick because there were no press screenings

And no, I didn't make the original post, that was posted in the Ask MB-section.

[redqueenar]

And no, I didn't make the original post, that was posted in the Ask MB-section.

Sorry again.

Personally, I long for the day when people realize that Armageddon is a John Ford calvary Western... IN SPACE! Time will tell, it always does.

[sora]

From what I've read, he (Bay) made the remark as the producer.
There's no problem with making profits. It's quite sound attitude toward producing.

Besides, Michael Bay probably knows better than anyone the best and shortest way to make money from movie making. It's simple. "to entertain audience".
So I'd say. Don't be up tight.


BTW Bee, You may want to wrap B (bold) or U (underline) tag around a passage you'd like to refer from the next time. Then nobody might misunderstand your intention.

Now you are twisting my words. This is the danger with the internet - words become fodder for other stuff off subject. Very simply I'm talking about my "side business". That is my horror genre division where I produce - and nothing else. I'm not talking about my movies I direct. I'm talking about re making Texas Chainsaw. I'm very clear in the last post that I was talking about Texas, the original movie, and was it so "sacred" that it should of never been remake?? Stay on point - don't apply these words to other movies.
M

Sometimes it annoys me too. People easily say "he/she said this" and "maybe he/she thinks that way" out of context.

[redqueenar]

From what I've read, he (Bay) made the remark as the producer.
There's no problem with making profits. It's quite sound attitude toward producing.

Besides, Michael Bay probably knows better than anyone the best and shortest way to make money from movie making. It's simple. "to entertain audience".
So I'd say. Don't be up tight.

BTW Bee, You may want to wrap B (bold) or U (underline) tag around a passage you'd like to refer from the next time. Then nobody might misunderstand your intention.

Sometimes it annoys me too. People easily say "he/she said this" and "maybe he/she thinks that way" out of context.

Prom Night kicked ass on its opening weekend. Prom Night!!! Horror films (that aren't torture porn!!) are great date movies!

I've always been impressed by the way Bay wears all the hats he does. Just reading through the SEC filing for Digital Domain is killing precious brain cells. My finance executive mother is so embarrassed by my ignorance.

[sora]

Prom Night kicked ass on its opening weekend. Prom Night!!! Horror films (that aren't torture porn!!) are great date movies!

I've always been impressed by the way Bay wears all the hats he does. Just reading through the SEC filing for Digital Domain is killing precious brain cells. My finance executive mother is so embarrassed by my ignorance.

And optimistically speaking, sometimes creating artistic stuff and making it profitable can go together. It makes both sides happy.

[hautbasclair]

Morality? Shit sells, if you wrap it in pretty paper with a cute ribbon

Really? Is that your point of view on Marketing?

I like to think that we always get the same pretty paper with a cute ribbon... after a while, you should be able to recognize what you get before you actually buy it.

After that, it's just a matter of opinion of what is inside.

[Smokescreen_5]

Personally.. I couldn't give a rats ass about a damn horror flick.. I think their all dumb in the first place..

Second.. I don't worry about Iraq.. whatever.. people signed up to be in the military.. the military owns them, they can do with them whatever the hell they want.. end of story.. its in the contract.. look at the UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE.. Oh.. and its just over 3000 dead.. not 4000.. but thats only the Americans.. that doesn't count the 30,000 or so Iraqi people that have been killed by their own terrorists.. but Americans are too damn caught up on the numbers of Americans killed and not really caring about the fact that before we got there, that the Iraqi people were being killed at a rate of about 10,000 people a year.. and since our forces have been there, its dropped to about 5,000 a year or less by now. but.. thats trivial information and who really gives a fuck about the Iraqi's.. right? whatever...

As far as this thread goes.. Bay is THE PRODUCER, he can do WHATEVER HE WANTS. They are HIS FILMS. If you don't want to see HIS REMAKES, then don't watch them.. nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to pay and watch them.. are they? No? Then shut up already.. damn.. this thread is retarded.. on to better things..

[olwenda]

Makes you wonder why Spielberg or Scorcese make movies.

I think what makes michael great is -the explosion,the helicopters the hot girls and the cars and a #1 box office,
comes to mind this might be only kind of films we might see from him.

I doubt to see a michael do/invest a picture like
"Michael clayton/There will be blood/No country for men"

filmmaking at it`s best

Mise-en-scene
Poetic Realism
Noir & Neonoir
New German Cinema
Italian Neorealism
French New Wave
Documentary
Cult


because this films won`t sell but would rather invest on a remake make money of it and not originallity "disapinting".

Comes back to what Sean Connery said WAY back might have been true.

[kevski]

Lol

[Bay_Fan_Gibson]

First off, I'm a big Michael Bay fan. Let's get this straight, I loved Transformers for what it was, a massive action packed thrilling ride, with great humor too. Armageddon was also greatly entertaining. The visuals, the music, all Michael Bay films are highly enjoyable. I love them all.
And again, I'm not trolling or looking for attention from any of you guys. And I don't expect to be banned for daring to criticise Michael Bay. I don't want to insult anyone.
But I stand by my first post. I didn't twist his words, Bay wrote them. The danger of the Internet is not that guys like me twist words, the danger is that when you write something, a lot of people can read it.

Why not? How many people your age remember the film?

Is this a joke?!! He presumes to know the original posters age. I guess he thinks he's young, and young people don't watch old cult movies. What was I thinking?!! or maybe he thought he was an old guy with amnesia... also very insulting.

Insulting? Overdramatic words, don't you think?
I think that Michael Bay just has a good sense of his audience and fanbase.
His movies like The Rock kick ass to anyone on the planet, but I doubt there are many oldies consistently browsing this forum. Maybe I am wrong.

I'm sure that there are youngsters who are into old cult movies. But like Michael Bay said above... "how many"....its niche audiences. The grand majority of youth, and not just youth but college kids and up as well, have never seen the original, nor do they care to much to. If anything, a new film brings new awareness to the original.

The original poster was talking about Rosemary's Baby, Bay deflected this and diverted to Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

It only became a "classic" in revisionist critics history. Why don't you read the reviews from back then?

Of course... again I'm sorry. The evil film critics decided Texas Chainsaw Massacre was going to be a classic. We all know most people can't decide for themselves... Have you ever heard of word of mouth? It's what you get when one guy sees a cool film, and then tells another to go see it, and so on... until after some time, you have a cult classic movie.

One mans whatever is another man's gold...or however it goes.

You could argue the same thing for Transformers. Look at all those passionate Transfans over the last few decades who are in love with the 1986 Transformers movie. Couldn't that qualify as a cult favorite status?

Bay remade these Transformers.
Yet you said above you "loved" Bay's remake. Contradiction?
So Bay's allowed to remake Transformers and you love it, yet when his company remakes a cult horror movie, you seem to criticize?

Transformers = allowed, Horror movies = not allowed?

Who wrote that dumb rulebook?

The people who saw the Texas I produced, never saw the original Texas

Yup... I don't know what to say, that is a big assumption. Maybe cinema was born with Bay, you know, how about... BB(before Bay), and AB(after Bay)... so I admit I saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre BB, but we all know movies weren't good back then, so all hail Texas AB!!!

The ironic thing here is that you assume that Bay assumed.
What if he had staff who researched this? What if he has documents in front of him showing the stats? Again, irony.

When are you people out here going to realize this is a business?

I don't understand... When I buy my ticket, I hand over 10$, the guy gives me a little paper cut out in return... I guessed the money was going somewhere, I couldn't quite figure out until now... jeez... Thanks Mr Bay! You just taught me something! Respect.

Do you think Bay will appreciate such apparent sarcasm?
The truth is that people do forget that its a business. They think the movies they love belong to them because they are just that big of fans.

Platinum Dunes is my side business. It is a business where I make a lot of money

I don't know what others think of this, but I see a film making huge amounts of money, I like to believe the filmmakers will reinvest that cash into other movies, and we will continue being entertained by more movies, and everyone is happy. Now maybe it isn't what Mr Bay meant, but that remark sounded like it was coming from a greedy, money obsessed person. It was unpleasant.

Why is it unpleasant? Because someone said he makes a lot of money from a revenue stream?

It's clear why each of us go to work each day. It's not because we just love those office buildings so much...."oooohhhh! These brick wallllss!!!!"......it's to collect for our work. Again, Michael Bay is just giving it to us straight and honest.

What do you want him to say?



..

[benizzle]

Hitcher was our first bomb. We went three for three, we spent $43 million in production and they went on to make $300 million worldwide in ticket sales not including video. Texas 2 was profitable so you are wrong on that fact.

M

I'm sorry Mr Bay for questioning what you said....but i can hardly believe that The Hitcher made 300$ million in ticket sales! Or did I missunderstand what you wanted to say?! (I'm from Switzerland so my english isn't perfect)
I know it's not a veeeery credible source of information, but here it says only 23$ million!
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=hitcher07.htm

Thanks and cheers

[Smokescreen_5]

Hitcher was our first bomb. We went three for three, we spent $43 million in production and they went on to make $300 million worldwide in ticket sales not including video. Texas 2 was profitable so you are wrong on that fact.

M

When you say ticket sales, do you mean to date.. as of April 25, 2008? Or do you mean just at the box office during the opening few months. I was looking at yahoo movies and it claims its only $16.4 million at the box office..

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809710034/info

I never even heard of this movie so I don't know much about it.

[Bay_Fan_Gibson]

What about Midnight Meat Train?
I can't believe you let that one slip away, Mr. Bay.

[CJP]

Bottom Line:
Movie making is a BUSINESS.
This concept is lost on way too many wanna directors / producers.
That is why they fail.

[xAgonyxScenex]

Really? Is that your point of view on Marketing?

I like to think that we always get the same pretty paper with a cute ribbon... after a while, you should be able to recognize what you get before you actually buy it.


After that, it's just a matter of opinion of what is inside.

you should...but you have to remember, most of the American public...is retarded.

[Smokescreen_5]

you should...but you have to remember, most of the American public...is retarded.

Now now... don't be so hard on yourself.... lol.. I kid