Your favourite Cinematography?

[alexsm]

What's your favourite Cinematography in Bay's work?

[alexsm]

I think we have to talk about Schwartzman's cinematography and post-Schwartzman's.

With him Bay's visuals where more elegant. All was more smoothy. And a think Pearl Harbor is his best work, and Bay's best work.

After him things changed, all gets shocking, harsh. Camera started to move faster and the feeling of chaos (the so called "Bayhem") get real in lots of scenes giving the feel that you where in the crash.

With Schwartzman everything was more beautiful, after him the feeling of "being into the action" got increased.

My favourite is Pearl Harbor, and (just seen it again two days ago) that's maybe my favourite bay movie (but, well...my fav is usually last i've seen LoL)

After that i have to choose the Island.

[kevski]

I have to agree... problem is that style is now dated and also copied to death. But at the time the cinematography was mindblowing. I'm not really fussy on BB2 or The Island tbh. Transformers was a return to form in that department!

[Tobi]

Schwartzman's the best Bay has worked with hands down, Bay-action is going to be Bay-action no matter who he works with, but I like the look Schwartzman brings to the table better than any of the other DP's.

Have you noticed how he was able to push saturation without overly inducing grain? of course this is personal taste, but it is one of the things I miss the most in Bay's movies, I'm not crazy about grain.

[Chemical Superfreak]

Okay, question. The DP sets the look of the movie, am i right? How so? Color schemes, and what? The DP is the cameraman, right? Like the 1st unit cameraman? I've always wondered this, the only DP's id know by name are Darius Khondji <Seven, Alien Resurrection, Panic Room> and Paul Cameron <Man On Fire>

[alexsm]

Okay, question. The DP sets the look of the movie, am i right? How so? Color schemes, and what? The DP is the cameraman, right? Like the 1st unit cameraman? I've always wondered this, the only DP's id know by name are Darius Khondji <Seven, Alien Resurrection, Panic Room> and Paul Cameron <Man On Fire>

As long as i know the DP sets the lightning and color (according to Director orders) and usually moves the main camera on the set.

[Chemical Superfreak]

Oh okay, so they have authority over what the sets are painted, etc? Guess i'm still a lil in the dark about what the DP's do. I love learning more about them thou, awsome thread!!

[Simon]

Although I watched Pearl Harbor just once, I think, yes those were the most beautiful images. After that The Island.
The "worst" one (still great) is in Transformers (besides bb1)

As said this is about the "most beauitful".
If you want to see the best cinematography ever in any movie by the way, go watch Stay.

[Bumblebee1983]

I cannot pick just one!

I loved the Rock's cinematography, along with the Island, Armageddon, and Pearl Harbor.

[Chemical Superfreak]

i voted for the Island, but i'm still not entirely sure what a DP does.

[elemental fantasy]

Michael Bay is not on that list and he should be. Bay's D.P.s are really just advanced camera operators, they really aren't D.Ps when they work with Bay, they become cinematographers. Bay tells them what to do down to the desired foot candles.

I think it's Bay style that has changed, as he is the primary D.P. Bay has the ability to change a cinematographer half way through production and nobody would ever notice the difference in there style as it's derived directly from Bay and will remain continuous regardless of who's behind his cameras.

And Chemical Superfreak, a D.P. is the director of photographer, depending all on the scale and style of production, a D.P. will usually set up the shots and collaborate with his gaffer and grips for the productions desired lighting set up. As far as the sets, that flows into the art department, not the production department, but often D.P.s will be bought on board a production in the pre process phase and can collaborate a little better with the art department for the pictures desired look, texture, and over all feel.

But overall, Bay is the man who makes the actors and crew look great. He also gets the least amount of credit.

[Chemical Superfreak]

guess i always thought the DP and cinematographer were one in the same.

[elemental fantasy]

They Basically are, but you can kinda break em down. M Bay directs his own photography so that makes his camera ops cinematographers, not directors of photography. Bay is always his own D.P. if he wasn't, he wouldn't need his eye piece he's always lookin through and setting focus and exposure with.

EDIT: I love John, but thought he did a horrible job with Seabiscut and some of his other work isn't that great either. Bay works with D.P.s who aren't too well known. Probably gives him more creative jurisdictional freedom. Can you blame him.

This bugs, people keep saying Pearl, but John didn't do SHIT with that movie, hell, 87% of the glory shots were done by Bay without John even being there over at ILM. I dont even think John was available through the entire shoot. I might be wrong on that one though.

[Chemical Superfreak]

But as the director he comes up with his own shots, right? He storyboards his own stuff, and comes up with like the hero shots, the cinemat. doesn't do anything like that right? I guess i only understand that the dp/ct does the sleek look stuff, i.e. the color tones and all that. Sorry i just don't follow.

[elemental fantasy]

No, you do follow pretty well, you see, Bay selects what he wants as the man knows what he wants. Normally a director sits on there ass, coaches actors, and doesn't even get to the edit bays. But Bay is not a director! Michael Bay is a filmmaker! He does it all as much as possible.

Yes, Bay creates MANY of his own shots: I.E. Bay style!!!

I.E. Bay also has choices over film stock, as any filmmaker should, and that can effect the color temperature and look, as well, there is also color timing which is a post process, which I am becoming very familiar with, that can manipulate any image for your desired tastes. (sleek look)

For Bay, all the D.P. really does is have enough knowledge to understand the conceptual language of cinematography to keep up with Bay. Sure, they have there ideas and such and do contribute artistically, but Bay is the commander and chief in the battle of production and knows what needs to be done for the shoot to edit process which D.P.s are never involved in as much as the filmmaker. The filmmaker is so, because he has power of choice, so, if your a filmmaker, you have producing power and contribute far more then just directing. Which is how Bay can make decisions that most contracted directors would never get to make.

It's hard to understand as it's different for every production, on some productions it''s actually a union violation for a director to even touch the camera, I shit you not, it just depends on the production and the fact of a director versus a story teller. (filmmaker - director) Hope that helps. There not the same! A D.P works with a director, a Cinematographer works with a filmmaker, in a way.

All in all, a good D.P./Cinematographer should have skills with film stocks, ASA, Foot candles (lighting), camera houses, and color timing.
But a great filmmaker will have a great visual image to his pre-fabricated movie, so he knows what he wants and has the knowledge to back it up, thats Bay baby!!!

EDIT: As the director Bay directs the actors, as the producing filmmaker, he oversees the cinematography department and all the other department heads which directors dont get to do unless they produce and are full rounded filmmakers.

[Chemical Superfreak]

Sweet merciful crap dude, write a book about it. Hehe, you seem to be the film-know-it-all i claim to all my freinds i am. Thank you for the knowledge!

[LadiesMan217]

Pearl Harbor, The Island and Transformers had the best cinematography in my opinion.

[STEPhon IT]

I picked Transformers but honestly his cinematography look identical to all his films. I can't tell the difference.

[alexsm]

I picked Transformers but honestly his cinematography look identical to all his films. I can't tell the difference.

See them again

[STEPhon IT]

They are the same. From lighting to the filters and film stock. I love it em all but I'll stick with Transformers.

[Chemical Superfreak]

I like to read this thread because i don't know much about cinematography in general. Therefore, what do you mean by film stock? I think you mean the physical film used in the cameras? I'm not sure.

And on a side note, the "color burning" as someone told me it was called, is different in the Island than most of Bay's other films, if i'm not mistaken, but i could easily be wrong.

[elemental fantasy]

STEPhon IT, lighting and filters (post color timing, not filters) in Bay's films are always the same, except for film stock and D.P.
The subtle image style is different, this is due impart to various cinematographers on a project, or per project, and different film stock's as well as different cameras and lenses per show.

Again, as I for mentioned, the reason it looks so similar is because Bay has a STYLE, he knows what he wants, the reason there are differences as alexsm pointed out is because of his use of various Cinematographers, film stock, and camera housings. He is the driving visionary force that keeps his camera crew in check.

And Chemical, your correct on the color burning technique. And yes, film stock refers to the film in the camera, it's speed and settings. ASA (#) and , 500T, 250T, so on.

P.S. Transformers had some of the worst D.P. work ever. It pissed me off in theaters with all the under exposure, as well, continuity cuts in daylight to sunset, an inexperienced D.P. = a bad D.P. TF is at the near bottom of Bay's work for visual Style. It's the visual content in TF that is groundbreaking, it really hides the lack of innovative visual stylization that Bad Boys had due to lack of visual groundbreaking content.

[STEPhon IT]

He he. I can't honestly tell the difference in Bays films when it comes to cinematography. I looked at my collection from American Cinematograghy involving most of Bay's films and film stocks and you are correct film stocks were different.

I think all of Bays films look good and I guess his worst is better than some filmmakers best. Bad DP? Well, I don't think the DP for Transformers was bad at all. There could have been a lot of factors to why there were under exposure, and continuity cuts in daylight to sunset?

Anyway I'm sure it will be corrected in the next film--well maybe?

[alexsm]

They are the same. From lighting to the filters and film stock. I love it em all but I'll stick with Transformers.

The same?





I don't think so.

[Bayhem]

What's your favourite Cinematography in Bay's work?

In my view, Schwartzman's best work. And I can say with full confidence that I love every single shot in "Pearl Harbor". There are no random movements or useless camera tricks...it's just flawless. So even though it's a war movie with lots of violence, "Pearl Harbor" is also one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen.