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Thread: Box Office.

  1. #26
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Link View Post
    AOE took months to reach that, I remember it took it's run in China to get that and once it was out of cinemas, it reached the billion total. TLK hasn't reached everyone, Mexico and Japan are big supporters for the franchise and hasn't gotten there.

    My point exactly.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  2. #27
    Senior Member greensmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    How so?


    The first TF movie made over $700 million worldwide. The first sequel made over $800 million. The second sequel made over $1 billion, the third sequel also made over $1 billion. Up and up. So the studio was doing what any other studio would do when they have an auteur-filmmaker like Bay who knows how to please the mass audience and who consistently delivers successful movies. So I don't know what you mean by "hasty & inconsiderate". Same vision or not, they were not doing stuff we haven't seen before. It's how the business works.

    And it was just a matter of time before "franchise fatigue". It happened to the fifth movie. If it wasn't the fifth one, it would've been the sixth one. My point is, after four movies (movies that are huge part of pop-culture now) Bay, the fans and the Paramount suits knew very well that it was just a matter of time before we see a serious box office decline. And it happened to TF5. It also happened to Pirates, it happened to the Middle Earth movies, it happened to Alice in Wonderland. Hell, it even happened to the almighty and beloved Alien franchise.

    In other words, no one is safe. The day will come when we'll see a serious box office decline even for those Marvel superhero films. And they'll reboot them as well. Just like Batman. And Spider Man.
    While TF4's box office was huge success thanks to mainly China & Latin America, even insensitive ones could see franchise fatigue when it made $100M less than TF3 in US or another big markets like UK, France, South Korea, Japan, Australia had considerable drop from TF3. As I know, studios keep studying market trends and unpredictable tendency of various moviegoers and think propitious release date over. But what you're saying sounds like Bay & studio's minds that have to handle the destiny of huge franchise and above $200M production cost are just..."Let's do this one more time because we won last time! Even if we totally lose, whatever! It's fate! So hurry the fuck up!" Well I didn't know they are complacent fatalist. Or maybe thanatotic gambler? Why did Disney make another Pirates movie for 6 years since the last one which also made $1B? Yeah nobody denies that franchise's fatigue & collapse is a natural, inevitable thing. But nobody lives to die or challenges to fail. Maybe Bay just could take it not seriously and mumble "C'est la vie." Actually I hope so. Nonetheless I think its precipitous decline from the last one is pretty disappointing situation to Bay & studio too. And more bittersweet thing is about Bay who didn't have to see its collapse. He could pass director's chair on someone a long time ago. Maybe that someone could renew the franchise in a different way and prolong its life like Fast & Furious. Who knows? But they've just kept running and their moves seem hasty & inconsiderate to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    The movie just came out, my friend. A week ago. It's not even out in some major markets (like Japan). So let's wait a week or two before comparing it to the final box offfice numbers of TF4.

    Let's be fair.
    OK, like Andy Dufresne said, hope is a good thing. But it seems obvious Japan or Mexico or anywhere can't stop huge decrease from TF4. I ALWAYS hope Bay's movies do incredibly well, but now I just say what I see.

  3. #28
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Nonetheless I think its precipitous decline from the last one is pretty disappointing situation to Bay & studio too. And more bittersweet thing is about Bay who didn't have to see its collapse.


    "Collapse" is such a strong word. A "collapse" is what happened to the Independence Day franchise. A "collapse" is what happened to RIPD and Stealth. But ok, for the sake of argument, let's say that TF5 is a total flop, a "collapse" (even though it's not). Do you think Bay would be really that disappointed, considering that he created with the previous four movies one of the most popular and successful franchises in film history? For my money, one bust out of five is not bad at all. And again, the Bay-produced Bumblebee movie is still up and running. So much for a franchise "collapse", huh?

    And while we're at it, do you think Spielberg can't sleep at night because the internet constantly mocks the last Indiana Jones movie, calling it the worst one and the one that destroyed that franchise? I don't think so. Do you think Ridley Scott is crying in his bed every night because Alien Covenant failed at the box office? Worldwide that movie made half of what Prometheus made and domestically it flat-out flopped . And this is the Alien franchise we're talking! Scott's franchise, he started it. One of the most beloved and influential sci-fi franchises in cinema history. Alien Covenant had all the right ingredients - the creator of the classic first Alien movie, Ridley Scott, came back to direct, the Xenomorph (aka The Protomorph) was back in its full glory, the budget - $100 million - was more than enough to make an epic Alien movie. Yet, the movie didn't work at the box office (personally, I liked it a lot).

    Having said that, just because a movie - even a franchise movie - doesn't work at the box office, doesn't mean that the director behind it should hate it or regrets it. The Island was a box office flop, but Bay is very proud of that movie. Same with 13 Hours.

    In the end, if you're an established and hugely successful filmmaker like Michael Bay (or Ridley Scott), you can definitely afford to have a few box office flops. Hell, Francis Lawrence's first feature film, Constantine, was a box office flop domestically, and it only made like $200 million worldwide, on a budget of over $100 million (and that does not include the P&A cost). That movie was supposed to start a whole new franchise with Keanu Reeves. That didn't happen though. Yet...Francis Lawrence continues to work.

    What I'm saying is, don't worry about Michael Bay. He's the second highest-grossing director in history (domestically), only behind his pal Spielberg, and despite the fact that Bad Boys 2 and TF5 didn't exactly crush the box office, both of those Bay-created franchises are considered very successful and influential. That's the overall picture. And that's what matters at the end of the day.





    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Maybe that someone could renew the franchise in a different way and prolong its life like Fast & Furious.


    Funny you mention Fast and Furious, because the last movie of that franchise is basically another TF4. The domestic numbers of Fate of the Furious went down significantly as it made $100 million less than what the previous one made. Sure, worldwide it made over $1 billion and that is great. But the exact same thing happened to TF4.

    And now we saw what happened to TF5 domestically. Same thing *will* happen to the the Fast and Furious movies, make no mistake about it. The next one, unless they really shake things up, may even struggle domestically. And no matter how many directors they change, the domestic decline for F&F is already pretty obvious and just like Transformers, that franchise relies mainly on the foreign markets now.

    Soon they'll be talking about a Fast and Furious reboot as well. Mark my words.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    We can keep on arguing about how much it's going to make for the next few weeks. I think surely we can agree however that even though the box office has declined it was still too much money internationally for Paramount to leave on the table by not making one.

    It reminds me to an extent of what the video game company Activision are facing with the Call of Duty franchise. Every year it declines, but it makes too much money to not make them. Obviously movie goers tire quicker than gamers.

    If one criticism can be levelled at Paramount I think it's the marketing team. I think they've spent too much, and I don't think it's made any difference to what the box office was going to be. 50 tv spots was pushing it!

  5. #30
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by fu[QUOTE=fu2kimus_prime View Post
    If one criticism can be levelled at Paramount I think it's the marketing team. I think they've spent too much, and I don't think it's made any difference to what the box office was going to be.


    Absolutely.


    Considering that Universal spent $150 million just to market the new "Mummy" one can only imagine how much Paramount spent on the TF5 marketing. It's definitely over $200 million. Add to that the film's core budget of around $220 million and you have a production with an overall budget of half a billion dollars. Now, I'm in no position to judge, but I think they should've been more....careful with the overall budget, not just the marketing. Yes, as Bay said, shooting 98% of the film with IMAX 3D cameras is expensive, but he's also known as a director who can do wonders with a smaller budget.


    But let's not blame only Paramount. All major studios spend huge amounts of money on marketing and fancy equipment. It's not something new, but...it just feels that these days they're spending a bit too much.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  6. #31
    Senior Member TIMtationX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Paramount knows where their bread is buttered and it ain't the USA. It's the sole reason why Age of Extension had an entire hour in China that was completely unnecessary lol

  7. #32

    Default Re: Box Office.

    "Age of Extension," lol...

    The whole China finale was PERFECT because of the outsourcing and "cheap knock-offs" line from Bumblebee about Stinger.

    XD

  8. #33
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Current status: $429,903,351 worldwide. Per Box Office Mojo. Soon it'll cross the half-billion dollar mark.

    It's now also Bay's 9th picture (out of 13) to cross the $100 million mark domestically. Congrats to him.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  9. #34
    Senior Member TIMtationX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    "Age of Extension," lol...

    The whole China finale was PERFECT because of the outsourcing and "cheap knock-offs" line from Bumblebee about Stinger.

    XD
    LOL That entire hour of Age of EXTINCTION was pointless and only served to pander to the Chinese audience. It was too blatant to ignore.. Literally every single thing that happened in China could've happened in Chicago since everyone involved was there.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Box Office.

    Orrrr it could happen in China.

    Which the film explains and justifies fully.

    So it did. Is this REALLY a problem?

    o_O

  11. #36
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    So..."War for the Planet of the Apes" was embraced by the critics with some of them even calling it one of the best movies of the year....yet that movie flat-out unrderpeformed at the box office. As Box Office Mojo put it: "War of the Planet of the Apes" is the latest franchise feature to experience a steep decline."


    Why am I saying this?

    Because it proves my point that, despite what some people say, this is not about film critics, haters and reviews. It's first and foremost about franchise fatigue. Good or bad reviews, it doesn't matter. If people are tired of a certain franchise and not interested in paying for "more of the same", they're not interested. Simple as that. So despite what some journalists say, reviews and Rotten Tomatoes scores are really not changing anything (thank God for that). TF5 was heavily trashed by the critics and online, and many people said that this is the main reason why it underperformed. Well, the Apes movie was absolutely embraced by the critics and online, but it also underperformed at the box office. In a quite similar way actually. Truth is, franchise fatigue is a very, very real thing this summer. And TF5 is one of the few franchise movies that suffered because of that. It's not because it's a "bad", "shitty", "crappy", "lame" movie. People simply saw it as "more of the same" and many decided not to go see it. Even if the reviews were all positive, the results would've been the same. No doubt in my mind.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Box Office Worldwide as today: $568,891,998. Does someone still think it will cross the one billion mark?
    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=transformers5.htm

    Yeah, don't think so. People write that it's cause of franchise fatigue. That might be true in a way. But I got only two words to say. Fast series.
    Fast 7: Worldwide $1,516,045,911 and Fast 8: Worldwide $1,238,764,765.
    Does the Fast series have franchise fatigue? Not in a million years. Why do people go and see the Fast movies, but not the latest Transformers? One big reason is that the Fast movies are good action movies and the latest Transformers was not so good. Many, me included, thought that The Last Knight was the worst of them all of many number of reasons. If a movie isn't good, then it's not gonna get past the one billion mark at the Worldwide Box Office.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    Does someone still think it will cross the one billion mark? Yeah, don't think so.


    We all knew after the first week and a half that it's not gonna hit the billion dollar mark. So there's no need for you to take shots here.





    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    People write that it's cause of franchise fatigue.


    Because franchise fatigue indeed plays a big, big part. And it's not only me saying it. Go to Forbes.




    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    Does the Fast series have franchise fatigue? Not in a million years.


    You sure? Really sure? Because box office analysts are already predicting that the next Furious movie will see a serious decline at the box office. Domestically, this year's Fast 8 is the lowest grossing film since the fifth one. It made $225 million, while the previous movie made $353 million. Yes, worldwide it made over $1 billion, but it still ended up behind the previous one. Also, that franchise, unlike Transformers, has been reinvented multiple times, with multiple directors and cast members. They added hugely popular action stars like The Rock and Statham, which is of course something that definitely helped a lot. As wrong as it sounds, even the Paul Walker death helped the seventh movie, as far as the box office was concerned. So you can brag about Fast and Furious all you want, but there are already clear signs of a decline and you'll see for yourself how things will look once the next one hits the theaters.




    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    One big reason is that the Fast movies are good action movies and the latest Transformers was not so good.


    That's not a factual reason. That is your opinion. And opinions, when it comes to appreciating art (movies, music, book, etc.), are always subjective. They're not facts. Just don't tell me you're one of those people who treat Rotten Tomatoes scores and film critics as the Holy Grail of cinema appreciation. If that is the case, I got nothing else to say, because film critics and film bloggers mean nothing to me. Yes, I may stumble upon reviews and read parts of them, but they don't influence me. Not one bit. I just don't care about them. Been that way for 15 years now, and it's a blast. I'm free to enjoy whatever I want to enjoy, and I'm not a sheep that is afraid to express an opinion because it'll be against the opinions of some critics and fanboys. I'm too old for these kiddy games anyway.




    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    Many, me included, thought that The Last Knight was the worst of them all of many number of reasons.


    Fine, nothing wrong with that. People are free to have their views. On my side, I personally know and I've heard from quite a few people who thought that TF5 was actually way better than the previous one. And they had reasons for that as well. So you see, there's always a balance.


    P.S. I've actually heard more people complaining about Fast 8 than people complaining about TF5. One major reason for that is the way the Jason Statham character was treated in that movie. They completely ignored the fact that the guy killed the beloved Han (not to mention the many innocent people he killed at the hospital during the opening of Fast 7) and worst of all, he was accepted in the Toretto family like it's no big deal. People really didn't like that, and it's something that completely goes against the core ideology of that franchise - which is, according to Diesel, family, family family. Well, what kind of a family just accepts, without saying anything, a brutal killer - the killer of one of their own? Makes no sense whatsoever.


    So yes, don't expect logic and proper character motivations in Fast and Furious. Just like Transformers, the Furious movies are popcorn entertainment. Nothing more.





    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    If a movie isn't good, then it's not gonna get past the one billion mark at the Worldwide Box Office.


    Hmm.....well, TF4 crossed the billion dollar mark worldwide. But many TF fans think it's crap and the worst one. I clearly remember the reactions back in 2014. And I seriously doubt critics will say that TF3 (also a billion-dollar movie) is a "good movie". So you see, my friend: there is no such thing as "objectively good" and "objectively bad" movie. Kevin Smith said it best: "Every movie is someone's favorite movie." Yes, there are cheap-looking, sloppy movies and movies made as a parody or a joke. But we should never act as if there's a law out there that says "This movie is GOOD. Factzzz!" and "This movie is BAD. Factzzz!". "If you disagree, you will be killed." No, we're free to have whatever opinions we wanna have. Just as long as we don't try to shove these opinions down people's throats.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    You are right Bayhem in several points. Not all my statements are facts. But then again I didn't claim they were that either. They are just my own opinions. Is a movie "good" or "bad" is a state of opinion and every one has their own. You are right about that.
    I'm not a fanboy or a film critic reader and think exactly the same as they do. When I review a movie, I always write what I thought about it. When I have expectations of a movie before I go and see it, then they are based to 99% of the trailers to the movies. Cause those I always watch and get a picture how a movie may look like. What critics write I couldn't care less, cause every time it seems like their favorite movie is like Bridges in Madison County when I like movies like The Rock.
    You say the Fast series also suffer from franchise fatigue. That may be the case in the US market, but in Europe those movies are very popular. Great overkill insane popcorn action movies always go home over here and people love them. Will Fast 9 be as successful at the Worldwide Box Office as the previous ones? That remains to be seen. They have gone bigger and bigger action vise since Fast 5 and I just have a hard time to image how they are gonna top the action scenes from Fast 8.
    The Last Knight seems to be some what of a "failure" at the Worldwide Box Office, but what ever the case may be, Paramount are forced to still make TF6 the way The Last Knight ended. Even when they don't get to laugh all the way to the bank this time as they have done with the previous Transformers movies...

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    If a movie isn't good, then it's not gonna get past the one billion mark at the Worldwide Box Office.
    The first two Transformers movies didn't reach $1 Billion worldwide boxoffice gross either and were top-notch despite all the bashing against the second one on the 'net.. people loved it.. it was the movie that allowed Hasbro to sell more merchandise than ever.

    Batman V Superman didn't reach $1 Billion either and it was top-notch despite the fact that the theatrical cut was missing many scenes just like Transformers5 .. but then the studios allowed for a 180 minutes Director's Cut Blu-Ray release which was a huge financial success selling like hotcakes.

    Both Batman V Superman and Transformers5 have something in common ... along with the directors ... a huge bashing campaign against both. Disney fans all over the 'net attacking and bashing Zack Snyder and Michael Bay. Still Batman V Superman managed to get more money even because the studios allowed for a Director's Cut release and clearly had better marketing.

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingzero View Post
    The first two Transformers movies didn't reach $1 Billion worldwide boxoffice gross either and were top-notch despite all the bashing against the second one on the 'net.. people loved it..
    One big reason why Transformers 1 and 2 didn't break the $1 billion mark is that they are not 3D movies. When Dark of the Moon was shot in 3D, it went past the $1 billion mark making a total of $1,123,794,079 at the worldwide Box Office.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Box Office.

    What bugs me abut the talk about the box office is that people (reporters, bloggers, forum users, commenters) are somewhat gleefully talking about 'the death of the Transformers franchise', as if this result is somehow bad or a failure (and yes, I know that AoE brought in $1.1b). I'm sure a lot of moviemakers wish their movie grossed $600m.

    People don't say that War For the Planet of the Apes was somehow a 'failure' for bringing in less than half of what Dawn of the Planet of the Apes grossed, or that Furious 8 brought in $250m less than Furious 7, or that Pirates 5 brought in $260m less than Pirates 4.

    This sort of thing leaves me with a suspicion that there's some kind of anti-Transformers bias where anything that makes the franchise look bad must be 'good'.

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