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Thread: Box Office.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Arrow Box Office.

    What do you know....the media was ready to proclaim the movie a total domestic disaster, with Hollywood Reporter stating two days ago that it may not even hit $60M opening. Well, not exactly......Per Deadline, "after a good Saturday of $17.5M (which turned out to be the pic’s highest day in its five-day opening, that was also +28% over Friday) "The Last Knight" looks to be nearing close to its original tracking projection of $70M with an estimated $69.1M per industry sources."


    Yes, it's not as big as the previous TF movies, but people have to remember that this is the *fifth* movie. The sizeable box office decline was inevitable. Bay knows it and Paramount knows it. So this is not a surprise. The domestic crowd was, and still is, very tough on third or forth sequels and again, this is a fifth movie in a franchise. Five movies from a single director. Of course you gonna see a decline, it's just what happens. It happened to Peter Jackson and his Middle Earth movies, it happened to Michael Bay and his "Transformers". It's not a surprise and eventually box office decline hits all film franchises. It already happened to "Pirates", "Transformers", and you can be sure, it will happen to the (already overexposed) "Wonder Woman" and "Avatar". That's just how it works.



    Anyway, internationally "The Last Knight" is pretty strong:
    (per Box Office Guru) - $265.3M global launch for #TransformersTheLastKnight, 74% from intl. China led w/ $123.4M in 3days, +37% vs debut of the last Transformers.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member Link's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Just wait until it gets to Latin America, though I wouldn't be surprised the full month delay will affect.

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Yeah Paramount knew this was how it was going to pan out domestically. This movie was made for The Asian market where the popularity of the Transformers brand is reaching its peak(especially China).

    I do do still think after the Bumblebee movie Paramount need to rest things for awhile. A reboot is needed in the future. They can still use ideas from the writers room but it does need a big revamp. And that's no disrespect to Bay he's done an amazing job, and not many directors would've got invested in this franchise enough to stay for 5 movies. He did, and he's gone out with a huge bang, a classic slice of Bayhem!

    However, like I said in the feedback thread, it's just time for a rest, and to rethink where to go moving forward. To be fair this is not just what's needed with the movies, but the whole brand. Hasbro rely far too much on G1 to generate interest, but that's a topic for a different thread.

    it feels weird saying that for a movie that could still make a billion. But I feel a 6th will see a sharp decline worldwide. The Bumblebee movie will be fine though as it won't need to make as much to stay profitable if Paramount keep the budget, and expectations in check.

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by fu2kimus_prime View Post
    I do do still think after the Bumblebee movie Paramount need to rest things for awhile.


    I'm with you on that. Absolutely.


    Even though they're in a tough spot, no matter how we look at it - on one hand, if studios keep releasing movies from the same franchise with the same director like there's no tomorrow, people will eventually say "Hey, I've had enough of this!". Which, at least domestically, kinda happened to "Transformers".

    On the other hand, if you wait too long for another sequel, people simply may not care anymore ("Independence Day 2" comes to mind). The "Transformers" franchise moves pretty fast, and in ten years they've made 5 movies. Which is a lot, if you compare it to other big franchises ("Terminator" for example - 5 movies in like, what, 33 years?).


    So yes, I agree with you. Paramount needs to take a break with "Transformers". But a reasonable break.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    I'd be surprised if this hits the one billion mark world wide. Saw it on Saturday night and there were no claps or applause's at the end of the movie. Barely half of the audience laughed at the "funny parts". It will likely be at the number one spot at the Box Office a week or two, but then comes Spider-Man: Homecoming, War for the Planet of the Apes, Dunkirk and Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets that will push Transformers way down the list pretty fast.

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    I'm with you on that. Absolutely.


    Even though they're in a tough spot, no matter how we look at it - on one hand, if studios keep releasing movies from the same franchise with the same director like there's no tomorrow, people will eventually say "Hey, I've had enough of this!". Which, at least domestically, kinda happened to "Transformers".

    On the other hand, if you wait too long for another sequel, people simply may not care anymore ("Independence Day 2" comes to mind). The "Transformers" franchise moves pretty fast, and in ten years they've made 5 movies. Which is a lot, if you compare it to other big franchises ("Terminator" for example - 5 movies in like, what, 33 years?).


    So yes, I agree with you. Paramount needs to take a break with "Transformers". But a reasonable break.
    you know thinking about it more, the break doesn't even need to be that long. It just needs someone to be allowed to come in and reshape it to their vision. The way Bay was allowed to 10 years ago, I think it's time to allow that to happen again. There's nothing wrong with the current product, it's just time for the shake up. All franchises need it eventually.

    So perhaps aim for a release in 2022. But whoever they pick to direct needs to be as much as an auteur as Bay, and finding that guy is the difficult part.

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    I'd be surprised if this hits the one billion mark world wide.

    Oh, it's not gonna hit $1 billion. It'll end up with $750-$800 million worldwide, according to early estimates. Keep in mind, "Batman v Superman" (which was more expensive than "The Last Knight") ended up with $873 million worldwide, and it was considered a success. So even though it ain't gonna top the previous TF film, "The Last Knight" will end up being a hit movie. And Paramount *will* make another one. Question is when....


    Quote Originally Posted by frolunda71 View Post
    Saw it on Saturday night and there were no claps or applause's at the end of the movie. Barely half of the audience laughed at the "funny parts".
    Fair enough. Personally, I saw the movie twice, and each time the audience had a blast. Perfect communal experience. And while we're at it, let's look at the big picture. Per THR: "The sci-fi tentpole generated a decent B+ Cinema Score from moviegoers, who were 57% male and 43% female. A total of 29% of the audience was under 18 and gave the film an A. While critics have blasted Last Knight, social media monitor Relish Mix notices a better response from moviegoers with “mixed convo that leans positive."


    Also, Chinese audiences are giving the movie a rating of 7.4. Which is better that the "Age of Extinction" rating (7.0). Per Deadline.



    So the bottom line is this: it's not that moviegoers aren't pleased with the movie. The overall response is similar to what we saw when the previous TF movie came out. It's about the fact that the market is extremely crowded, there's a strong competition, and after five movies "Transformers" is simply not the hottest ticket in town. Not anymore. So no matter how "good" (that's subjective anyway) the movie is, you simply wouldn't see huge crowds lining up in front of the theaters. It eventually happens to all film franchises.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by fu2kimus_prime View Post
    But whoever they pick to direct needs to be as much as an auteur as Bay, and finding that guy is the difficult part.
    True. But...I think I have a great idea: after they were fired from the "Han Solo" movie, Phil Lord and Chris Miller need to jump on the Transformers train. They're pretty popular, they can handle comedy, they can handle action and last, but not least, they've stated multiple times that they're both Michael Bay fans. So there you go - the perfect team for the next TF movie : )
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member greensmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    I liked this one and I'll gladly watch anything by Bay but I feel sure one thing. Bay's Transformers almost lost its popular appeal. Not just in USA but in Europe, China, South Korea and almost everywhere. WOM is frankly worst. The Chinese's reaction? Audience score on Douban, aka one of the biggest movie site in China, is 4.8 (TF4's score is 6.6). And no, It won't make $800m. Even making $700m seems undoable. I don't think it's deserved reception. It's rather unreasonably harsh to Bay. I can say "Nah, fuck the critics and snobs" all day. But that's the situation. Fatigue & WOM seriously hurts the movie. I know there are still a lot of fans but also so many moviegoers refuse and even curse it. I knew it'll come and this is the day.

    Now all I wanna say is Bay REALLY should fucking move on and make more original films. I sincerely hope it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Not just in USA but in Europe, China, South Korea and almost everywhere. WOM is frankly worst.

     
    What happens to "Transformers" eventually happens to *all* film franchises. Instead of focusing on the fact that this is overall a strong franchise that had 5 whole movies in just 10 years, while so many other (would-be) franchises die a horrible death after a first or a second sequel, some of you guys are acting like "Transformers" is an utter failure. No, it is not. It's actually one of the good examples of a strong, leggy franchise. A franchise that was able to attract viewers for years and years, despite the constant critical/G1 fanboy bashing. That is quite an accomplishment, folks.


    And no, the WOM for "The Last Knight" is far from the worst. As I already said, the movie got a B+ CinemaScore, which is pretty damn good for a fifth movie in franchise (from the same director nonetheless). And again, the response from moviegoers on social media was described as a mixed convo, that leans positive. That matters.


    Also, here's what Box Office Guru said: "International markets are where numbers are still strong and that was once again the case here. Last Knight took in an estimated $196.2M this weekend from overseas markets led by China's terrific $123.4M over three days. The new film debuted 35% bigger than the last one, indicating growth is still out there for the Autobots."



     
    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    The Chinese's reaction? Audience score on Douban, aka one of the biggest movie site in China, is 4.8 (TF4's score is 6.6).
     


    The rating I used in my previous post (it's also the one the media uses as well) is coming from an actual ticketing site, called Maoyan. It's much more reliable.
     



    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Even making $700m seems undoable.
     



    We'll talk about that in two weeks. Just keep in mind this: after just one weekend the movie is already close to $300 million worldwide. And most importantly, it's yet to open in major markets like France, Brazil, Mexico, Spain and Japan.





    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Fatigue & WOM seriously hurts the movie. I know there are still a lot of fans but also so many moviegoers refuse and even curse it.


    Fatigue, yes, absolutely. Though this is something people expected. It's not a surprise. WOM, I don't really agree with you, and that is because I don't think it's as bad as you say (I'm talking worldwide).

    Are there many people that trash the move? Yes. But there are a lot of fans as well.


    Let me just repeat something I said earlier: it's not that moviegoers despise the movie. The overall response is similar to what we saw when the previous TF movie came out (I remember clearly how people were saying all over social media that "Age of Extinction" is the worst one, how the WOM was horrible, how much the movie sucks, etc). As for the weak domestic numbers of the new movie, it's mainly about the fact that the market is extremely crowded, there's a strong competition, and most importantly, after five movies "Transformers" is just not the hottest ticket in town. Not anymore. So no matter how "good" (that's subjective anyway) the movie is, you simply wouldn't see huge crowds lining up in front of the theaters. Bay knows it, the Paramount suits know it, we all know it. So let's not pretend like we're seeing something we haven't seen before with thousands of other movies and franchises.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
     
    What happens to "Transformers" eventually happens to *all* film franchises. Instead of focusing on the fact that this is overall a strong franchise that had 5 whole movies in just 10 years, while so many other (would-be) franchises die a horrible death after a first or a second sequel, some of you guys are acting like "Transformers" is an utter failure. No, it is not. It's actually one of the good examples of a strong, leggy franchise. A franchise that was able to attract viewers for years and years, despite the constant critical/G1 fanboy bashing. That is quite an accomplishment, folks.

    Fatigue, yes, absolutely. Though this is something people expected. It's not a surprise. WOM, I don't really agree with you, and that is because I don't think it's as bad as you say (I'm talking worldwide).

    Are there many people that trash the move? Yes. But there are a lot of fans as well.

    Let me just repeat something I said earlier: it's not that moviegoers despise the movie. The overall response is similar to what we saw when the previous TF movie came out (I remember clearly how people were saying all over social media that "Age of Extinction" is the worst one, how the WOM was horrible, how much the movie sucks, etc). As for the weak domestic numbers of the new movie, it's mainly about the fact that the market is extremely crowded, there's a strong competition, and most importantly, after five movies "Transformers" is just not the hottest ticket in town. Not anymore. So no matter how "good" (that's subjective anyway) the movie is, you simply wouldn't see huge crowds lining up in front of the theaters. Bay knows it, the Paramount suits know it, we all know it. So let's not pretend like we're seeing something we haven't seen before with thousands of other movies and franchises.
    I'm one of those who didn't like The Last Knight that much. Gave it 2/5 points. The comedy parts was just way off. Like Americans tried to do British John Cleese humor, but it turned out to be just pancake almost all of it.
    I'm not tired of the franchise at all. If TF6 would come out next month, I would buy tickets to the premiere hands down. Michael Bays action is still one of the best in the world, that is very hard to match. It was just the story and the comedy parts that didn't work for me in The Last Knight. Stanley Tucci being Merlin when he was an other character in AoE, spaceships in the UK and the Atlantic Ocean that nobody had ever discovered before, Unicron arriving to Earth when it was still Pangaea, like WTF???, Cybertron flying through the Universe when it came to Earth, when it had to use a spacebridge wormhole thing in Dark of the Moon to do that, and so on.
    So I don't believe that people are that tired of the Transformers franchise as that. I just think that there's a bigger percentage of people who didn't like The Last Knight that much compared to the previous movies. It's like it's a movie that divides people into two camps. Those who like it, and to those who don't. Now it remains to be seen if the franchise is on it's way to die when they are going to do the Bumblebee spin-off movie and make it a movie that is made for an younger audience than the Michael Bay movies have been. The way The Last Knight ended, they are forced to make TF6. But what they do after that remains to be seen. If the Bumblebee movie turns out the be one big failure for Paramount, then I think that a complete reboot after a couple of years after TF6 is what will most likely to happen.

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    Senior Member greensmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
     
    What happens to "Transformers" eventually happens to *all* film franchises. Instead of focusing on the fact that this is overall a strong franchise that had 5 whole movies in just 10 years, while so many other (would-be) franchises die a horrible death after a first or a second sequel, some of you guys are acting like "Transformers" is an utter failure. No, it is not. It's actually one of the good examples of a strong, leggy franchise. A franchise that was able to attract viewers for years and years, despite the constant critical/G1 fanboy bashing. That is quite an accomplishment, folks.


    And no, the WOM for "The Last Knight" is far from the worst. As I already said, the movie got a B+ CinemaScore, which is pretty damn good for a fifth movie in franchise (from the same director nonetheless). And again, the response from moviegoers on social media was described as a mixed convo, that leans positive. That matters.


    Also, here's what Box Office Guru said: "International markets are where numbers are still strong and that was once again the case here. Last Knight took in an estimated $196.2M this weekend from overseas markets led by China's terrific $123.4M over three days. The new film debuted 35% bigger than the last one, indicating growth is still out there for the Autobots."



     

     


    The rating I used in my previous post (it's also the one the media uses as well) is coming from an actual ticketing site, called Maoyan. It's much more reliable.
     




     



    We'll talk about that in two weeks. Just keep in mind this: after just one weekend the movie is already close to $300 million worldwide. And most importantly, it's yet to open in major markets like France, Brazil, Mexico, Spain and Japan.









    Fatigue, yes, absolutely. Though this is something people expected. It's not a surprise. WOM, I don't really agree with you, and that is because I don't think it's as bad as you say (I'm talking worldwide).

    Are there many people that trash the move? Yes. But there are a lot of fans as well.


    Let me just repeat something I said earlier: it's not that moviegoers despise the movie. The overall response is similar to what we saw when the previous TF movie came out (I remember clearly how people were saying all over social media that "Age of Extinction" is the worst one, how the WOM was horrible, how much the movie sucks, etc). As for the weak domestic numbers of the new movie, it's mainly about the fact that the market is extremely crowded, there's a strong competition, and most importantly, after five movies "Transformers" is just not the hottest ticket in town. Not anymore. So no matter how "good" (that's subjective anyway) the movie is, you simply wouldn't see huge crowds lining up in front of the theaters. Bay knows it, the Paramount suits know it, we all know it. So let's not pretend like we're seeing something we haven't seen before with thousands of other movies and franchises.
    I don't talk about commonplace vitriol about Bay's films. I knew the new one will have many detractors from the beginning. But I'm not making a fuss about nothing. You think Douban is not that reliable? Score on Mtime which is another movie site in China is lowest too. Just 6. And Maoyan? TF4's score was 9.2. Quite a drop. Check the movie sites in China, USA, South Korea, Russia and anywhere. As I said, Worldwide WOM is plain bad. And I knew it won't make as much as TF3 or TF4. Of course It can't be always the hugest blockbuster in the town. Anybody could see some decrease. But this one's gonna make just fucking half bat of the last one in US. Quite a drop again, isn't it? Worldwide boxoffice? China and South Korea are two of the most reliable markets for transformers and the developments of boxoffice in there aren't positive at all. The movie met just cold reception and furious hate and sharply decreasing revenue. Then why the fuck do Bay has to keep making the series? Bay always recognizes the business side of his movies. He should know his transformers is critically running out of steam. I think he should have left the sage a long time ago.

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    Senior Member zyfyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Greetings!

    The three-day weekend total of $45.3 million tells the true story: the franchise is running out of steam in the States! While the global box-office is stable, one can't help but to think with the lack of critical acceptance and a strong negative response from the fan base, the move franchise's days are numbered. Bay-and-company can be credited bringing the franchise to the silver-screen, but in order for it last with the CRITICAL SUPPORT of the moving-going public:

    It's needs to be rebooted. More confident franchises...such as Marvel/Spiderman have rebooted to critical success. So it should be with the Transformers property.

    - Zyfyre

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    But this one's gonna make just fucking half bat of the last one in US. Quite a drop again, isn't it?
    No one denies that there is a big drop domestically. That's not the point. It's one thing when that kind of a drop hits a fifth movie in a franchise, it's totally different when it hits the second or a third movie. Let me remind you what happened to Independence Day 2: worldwide, that movie made pretty much what the first ID movie made in North America alone. Now *that* is a huge drop and a failure. Same with Ted 2 - it made half of what the first one made worldwide. Same with Divergent. Same with plenty of other franchises. There was a very early "franchise fatigue" with them.

    That was not the case with Transformers though. The fact that the big drop happened to the fifth movie goes to show how strong that franchise was. Unlike many other franchises, it didn't die on the second or the third movie. Instead, it kept on going, despite the film critics and angry fanboys. And that is something admirable. Something we should never ignore.




    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Worldwide boxoffice? China and South Korea are two of the most reliable markets for transformers and the developments of boxoffice in there aren't positive at all.


    You claim these things, but unlike me, you don't provide any official information. No links. Where did you get the information that things "aren't positive" in China? Because last time I checked, Box Office Guru wrote: "Last Knight took in an estimated $196.2M this weekend from overseas markets led by China's terrific $123.4M over three days. The new film debuted 35% bigger than the last one, indicating growth is still out there for the Autobots."



    How is that "not positive"? Especially when you consider the domestic drop.




    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    The movie met just cold reception and furious hate and sharply decreasing revenue.


    Cold reception by critics and *some* audience members. Yes. Like any other TF movie. Why is that a surprise? "Furious hate" - hmm, I guess you don't remember 2009 when TF2 came out. I remember clearly the hate then. What we're seeing now is nothing. "Sharply decreasing revenue"? In North America, yes. Globally, not exactly. Look up the numbers in my previous posts on this thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Then why the fuck do Bay has to keep making the series? Bay always recognizes the business side of his movies. He should know his transformers is critically running out of steam. I think he should have left the sage a long time ago.



    Why does he keep making them? Because of this: TF4 made over $1 billion worldwide, and what a lot of people don't seem to know is that TF4 was also *the* most profitable movie of 2014 (per Deadline).

    So, isn't that a good enough reason for the studio and Bay to make another one?



    TF5, while not as big as the previous one, will certainly *not* be a box office fiasco, a la Independence Day 2. It'll make close to what Batman v Superman made worldwide. That movie was more expensive, and it didn't even hit $1 billion, even though before the premiere people were certain that it will be a billion dollar movie. Yet, it's still considered a success.

    By the way, what do you mean by "critically running out of steam"?


    Considering the fact that the TF movies were *always* trashed by the critcs - from Day 1 - while at the same time receiving positive responses from ordinary moviegoers, I fail to understand what do you mean by "critically running out of steam". The statement would've made sense if the first few TF films were met with positive reviews by most film critics, and it was after that when things started to change...but that is not the case. Critics - at least most of them - simply hate all of those movies. All of them. Does that matter, if you ask me? No. Film critics, angry bloggers and fanboys do not exist in my world. I don't watch movies based on what other people say about them. I've worked as a writer for a film site and I'm currently working on a script of my own. So I think I'm educated enough on the matter of cinema and I know what I like. I will gladly disscuss movies with other film fans and I love talking about cinema. What I don't like though, is when others think that their opinions are facts and when they start preaching to folks about what movie is "good" and what movie is "bad". It's one thing to share your opinion, it's totally different when you try to shove it down people's throats.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyfyre View Post
    The three-day weekend total of $45.3 million tells the true story: the franchise is running out of steam in the States!


    Yes, in the States. Not globally.



    Here's what Paramount's distribution president said: "In the end, our business is global. The global number does matter, and this movie is built for global audiences."





    Quote Originally Posted by zyfyre View Post
    ...one can't help but to think with the lack of critical acceptance and a strong negative response from the fan base, the move franchise's days are numbered.

    They said the same thing in 2009 when TF2 came out and fanboys and critics were all up in arms and wanted Bay's head. Because, you know, he made TF2 - "the worst movie eva". Yet, the movie was an enormous international hit, and after that Bay made two billion dollar TF movies. So yes, "critical acceptance", as far as Bay films are concerned, can go to hell.


    The day Bay says "I'm gonna make movies for "critical acceptance" " is the day he's gonna lose me as a fan. And I'm not gonna be the only one.





    Quote Originally Posted by zyfyre View Post
    ...but in order for it last with the CRITICAL SUPPORT of the moving-going public

    You make it sound like they just started making these Transformers films. There are already five of them. If they don't make another one, it's still gonna be considered a very good run. Bay did more than enough - not every day a single director carries an entire franchise for a decade.


    He had a good run, he's proud of TF5, and the only thing the studio can do is shake things up a bit by bringing someone new. Bay's got nothing to prove.



    Quote Originally Posted by zyfyre View Post
    It's needs to be rebooted. More confident franchises...such as Marvel/Spiderman have rebooted to critical success.


    So your idea of a "great" franchise is a franchise that is reviewed well by film critics? Do you really care about critics that much? Well, I don't. I'm one of those people who care about the actual moviegoers. People without preconceived notions, people without agendas. Critics, especially when it comes to Bay films, are the last people on Earth I would listen to.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member zyfyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Greetings!

    Beyond the money they make, I can't imagine that Bay-and-Company doesn't care about the overall consensus of the quality of the Transformers movies, which are becoming an example and being used as the standard of what makes a bad film, a bad film. What true Transformers fan wants their favorite Franchise to be viewed as such?

    So while earning a profit is an obvious goal, one can't help but imagine that Bay-and-Company ALSO has a goal to make a GOOD FILM, which hasn't happened since the first. Every movie since has just had small enjoyable moments in the films that were just a large cacophony of visuals. To make a Transformers film that makes MONEY and one that is truly a GOOD movie, I feel is beyond Bay-and-company's grasp.

    Like Marvel, Hasbro needs to bring someone in-house that can oversee, shepherd, and guard the Lore more effectively than Paramount and the writers they hire. It's time to reboot.

    - In my opinion, Zyfyre

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyfyre View Post
    Greetings!

    Beyond the money they make, I can't imagine that Bay-and-Company doesn't care about the overall consensus of the quality of the Transformers movies, which are becoming an example and being used as the standard of what makes a bad film, a bad film. What true Transformers fan wants their favorite Franchise to be viewed as such?

    So while earning a profit is an obvious goal, one can't help but imagine that Bay-and-Company ALSO has a goal to make a GOOD FILM, which hasn't happened since the first. Every movie since has just had small enjoyable moments in the films that were just a large cacophony of visuals. To make a Transformers film that makes MONEY and one that is truly a GOOD movie, I feel is beyond Bay-and-company's grasp.

    Like Marvel, Hasbro needs to bring someone in-house that can oversee, shepherd, and guard the Lore more effectively than Paramount and the writers they hire. It's time to reboot.

    - In my opinion, Zyfyre
    I'm not getting at you specifically, but I read this "Hasbro should bring it in-house" argument all over different boards online.

    However I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. I mean Hasbro could do that, but that would also mean them stumping up the 200 or so million dollars to get the thing made. And I just can't see them doing that. It's far more profitable for them to find partners then earn the money from the licensing, toys, and other merchandise.

    The franchise will get a reboot, I'm sure. Because 10 years, it's time.

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    True. But...I think I have a great idea: after they were fired from the "Han Solo" movie, Phil Lord and Chris Miller need to jump on the Transformers train. They're pretty popular, they can handle comedy, they can handle action and last, but not least, they've stated multiple times that they're both Michael Bay fans. So there you go - the perfect team for the next TF movie : )
    Works for me! They also would get the tone right, which to me is the most important part of Transformers.

  19. #19
    Senior Member greensmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    No one denies that there is a big drop domestically. That's not the point. It's one thing when that kind of a drop hits a fifth movie in a franchise, it's totally different when it hits the second or a third movie. Let me remind you what happened to Independence Day 2: worldwide, that movie made pretty much what the first ID movie made in North America alone. Now *that* is a huge drop and a failure. Same with Ted 2 - it made half of what the first one made worldwide. Same with Divergent. Same with plenty of other franchises. There was a very early "franchise fatigue" with them.

    That was not the case with Transformers though. The fact that the big drop happened to the fifth movie goes to show how strong that franchise was. Unlike many other franchises, it didn't die on the second or the third movie. Instead, it kept on going, despite the film critics and angry fanboys. And that is something admirable. Something we should never ignore.
    Actually nobody denied the franchise was hugely successful for a long time. Who the fuck denies it? I certainly admire that accomplishment. But that time is over.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    You claim these things, but unlike me, you don't provide any official information. No links. Where did you get the information that things "aren't positive" in China? Because last time I checked, Box Office Guru wrote: "Last Knight took in an estimated $196.2M this weekend from overseas markets led by China's terrific $123.4M over three days. The new film debuted 35% bigger than the last one, indicating growth is still out there for the Autobots."



    How is that "not positive"? Especially when you consider the domestic drop.
    In South Korea, TF4 first 5 day admissions: 2,639,754. And TF5 first 5 day admissions: 1,750,478. And while TF4 eventually attracted more than 5 millions, the many expect TF5 got less than 3 millions. And Hollywood Reporter wrote : "It's also considerably better than Transformers: Age of Extinction's $92 million full first week in China in 2014. Back then, however, Hollywood films tended to be far leggier in China — whether T5 can match T4's eventual $320 million Sino tally remains in question given the way U.S. action tentpoles have tended to drop off recently." Even a lot better opening number doesn't guarantee the last one's final results. It's not positive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    Cold reception by critics and *some* audience members. Yes. Like any other TF movie. Why is that a surprise? "Furious hate" - hmm, I guess you don't remember 2009 when TF2 came out. I remember clearly the hate then. What we're seeing now is nothing. "Sharply decreasing revenue"? In North America, yes. Globally, not exactly. Look up the numbers in my previous posts on this thread.
    Oh I remember TF2. They fucking hated that movie. It's not unusual thing to Bay. But as I said earlier, I'm not talking about commonplace vitriol about Bay's films. What I'm just saying is that vitriol finally played a part in TF5's way weaker boxoffice number.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    Why does he keep making them? Because of this: TF4 made over $1 billion worldwide, and what a lot of people don't seem to know is that TF4 was also *the* most profitable movie of 2014 (per Deadline).

    So, isn't that a good enough reason for the studio and Bay to make another one?



    TF5, while not as big as the previous one, will certainly *not* be a box office fiasco, a la Independence Day 2. It'll make close to what Batman v Superman made worldwide. That movie was more expensive, and it didn't even hit $1 billion, even though before the premiere people were certain that it will be a billion dollar movie. Yet, it's still considered a success.
    So TF5 won't make $1 billion, now he can move on! Great! And if the word "boxoffice fiasco" makes you nervous, I'd just call it's pretty under-performed. BTW TF5 won't make as much as Batman V Superman.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    By the way, what do you mean by "critically running out of steam"?


    Considering the fact that the TF movies were *always* trashed by the critcs - from Day 1 - while at the same time receiving positive responses from ordinary moviegoers, I fail to understand what do you mean by "critically running out of steam". The statement would've made sense if the first few TF films were met with positive reviews by most film critics, and it was after that when things started to change...but that is not the case. Critics - at least most of them - simply hate all of those movies. All of them. Does that matter, if you ask me? No. Film critics, angry bloggers and fanboys do not exist in my world. I don't watch movies based on what other people say about them. I've worked as a writer for a film site and I'm currently working on a script of my own. So I think I'm educated enough on the matter of cinema and I know what I like. I will gladly disscuss movies with other film fans and I love talking about cinema. What I don't like though, is when others think that their opinions are facts and when they start preaching to folks about what movie is "good" and what movie is "bad". It's one thing to share your opinion, it's totally different when you try to shove it down people's throats.
    That's a misreading. When I used the word "critically" I meant it "seriously." Sorry about my poor English.

  20. #20
    Senior Member zyfyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Greetings all!

    Hasbro should keep their external producing partners, but should have someone at Hasbro to serve in a Kevin Feige-like role to control and shepherd the story Lore. It seems that Hasbro has given most of the story control to Bay-and-company, which allows him to dictate where the Transformer's stories goes. An example is the Transformers Writer's Room made up of 12 Hollywood writers that got paid major money. With what results? The lowest Rotten Tomatoes score, lowest State's box-office, lowest rated of the Franchise. That couldn't be what they were hoping to result from the Transformers Writer's Room.

    With Optimus saying: "Say hello/Meet to my little friend!" and then Bumblebee, exclaiming: "I sting like a bee!" at such a pivotal moment, it makes me wonder if Bay-and-company, along with their writers aren't trolling the Franchise and Hasbro? I really wonder?

    That said, f Hasbro had an in-house, Kevin Feige like executive, shepherding and protecting the Lore, such poor results would be unlikely.

    - In my opinion,
    Zyfyre

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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyfyre View Post
    Greetings all!

    Hasbro should keep their external producing partners, but should have someone at Hasbro to serve in a Kevin Feige-like role to control and shepherd the story Lore. It seems that Hasbro has given most of the story control to Bay-and-company, which allows him to dictate where the Transformer's stories goes. An example is the Transformers Writer's Room made up of 12 Hollywood writers that got paid major money. With what results? The lowest Rotten Tomatoes score, lowest State's box-office, lowest rated of the Franchise.

    That couldn't be what they were hoping to result from the Transformers Writer's Room. It makes me wonder if Bay-and-company, along with their writers aren't trolling the Franchise and Hasbro?

    If Hasbro had an in-house, Kevin Feige like executive, shepherding and protecting the Lore, these poor results would be unlikely.

    - In my opinion,
    Zyfyre
    I mean that's fair enough you could have that guy certainly. But any director worth his/her salt will have final cut just like Bay has had.

    I'm also really not sure who that guy protecting the lore would be though...a better question what are the aspects of the lore we need to protect? As Hasbro themselves play fast and loose with it. Plus the current Hasbro Transformers team are in my opinion unhealthily obsessed with G1 based characters, and designs.

    in theory it's a good idea though, if Hasbro can get their own house in order.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    But that time is over.


    We still haven't heard from the studio, so....

    Also, let's keep in mind that the Bumblebee movie, with Bay producing, is still in active development. They start shooting this summer, if I'm not mistaken. So it seems this is not the end of the Bay/Transformers universe.

    But yes, all things come to an end, eventually. Transformers, under Bay, did its job - five whole movies that, whether you like them or not, had a global appeal and made the Transformers brand more popular than ever. Also, how many directors can claim that they've made five huge franchise movies that were successful not only theatrically, but on home video as well?

    So even if TF5 was a total box office flop worldwide (it's certainly not) I doubt Bay would be losing sleep over it. He did more than enough for this brand, whether some people want to admit it or not.





    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Even a lot better opening number doesn't guarantee the last one's final results. It's not positive.


    All major media outlets have stated that even if TF5 ends up being a huge domestic flop, the movie will compansate from foreign markets. It's been less than two weeks and TF5 is yet to open in a couple of major markets. But even without them, the movie made (after the first weekend) close to $300 million. Despite strong competition and franchise fatigue. So yes, all things considered, this is a solid global opening.




    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    What I'm just saying is that vitriol finally played a part in TF5's way weaker boxoffice number.


    Why "finally"? The vitriol was always there and always played a part. It was a lot worse in 2009, but that didn't stop TF2 from being a worldwide success. So.... I would argue that the weak TF5 numbers (domestically that is) have more to do with franchise fatigue, strong competition and simply the fact that with all of those comicbook movies around, Transformers is not as hot as it was. And you can be 100% sure that even if TF5 had amazing reviews, the movie still would've struggled domestically. After four movies with the same vision and the same director, released in a relatively short period of time, a lot of people are just not that impressed or interested in Optimus Prime speeches and transforming robots. That's it. That's the bottom line.





    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    BTW TF5 won't make as much as Batman V Superman.


    First, what Batman v Superman accomplished at the at the box office is certainly not impressive, considering that this was the first time we saw the most popular comicbook heroes in history together on the big screen. And this is supposed to be the "golden age of superhero movies". Second, I said that TF5 will make "close" to what Batman v Superman did. It seems though you're under the impression that the movie will not even hit $500 million worldwide. You're almost saying that this movie as a total disaster. Sorry, but it's not.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  23. #23
    Senior Member greensmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    After four movies with the same vision and the same director, released in a relatively short period of time, a lot of people are just not that impressed or interested in Optimus Prime speeches and transforming robots.
    As you said, that's the point. That's the hasty & inconsiderate act of studio & Bay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    It seems though you're under the impression that the movie will not even hit $500 million worldwide. You're almost saying that this movie as a total disaster. Sorry, but it's not.
    No I didn't say it won't make $500M. I already said TF5 won't make $800M. While POTC5 which has similar conditions like franchise fatigue, not-that-favorable reviews, strong competitions will make more than $700M (and its domestic number seems not that awful), TF5? I don't know. $700M seems difficult now. Compare to the last one which made $1.1B, it's surely quite a disappointment. That's the bottom line.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    That's the hasty & inconsiderate act of studio & Bay.


    How so?


    The first TF movie made over $700 million worldwide. The first sequel made over $800 million. The second sequel made over $1 billion, the third sequel also made over $1 billion. Up and up. So the studio was doing what any other studio would do when they have an auteur-filmmaker like Bay who knows how to please the mass audience and who consistently delivers successful movies. So I don't know what you mean by "hasty & inconsiderate". Same vision or not, they were not doing stuff we haven't seen before. It's how the business works.

    And it was just a matter of time before "franchise fatigue". It happened to the fifth movie. If it wasn't the fifth one, it would've been the sixth one. My point is, after four movies (movies that are huge part of pop-culture now) Bay, the fans and the Paramount suits knew very well that it was just a matter of time before we see a serious box office decline. And it happened to TF5. It also happened to Pirates, it happened to the Middle Earth movies, it happened to Alice in Wonderland. Hell, it even happened to the almighty and beloved Alien franchise.

    In other words, no one is safe. The day will come when we'll see a serious box office decline even for those Marvel superhero films. And they'll reboot them as well. Just like Batman. And Spider Man.





    Quote Originally Posted by greensmoke View Post
    Compare to the last one which made $1.1B, it's surely quite a disappointment.

    The movie just came out, my friend. A week ago. It's not even out in some major markets (like Japan). So let's wait a week or two before comparing it to the final box offfice numbers of TF4.

    Let's be fair.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Box Office.

    AOE took months to reach that, I remember it took it's run in China to get that and once it was out of cinemas, it reached the billion total. TLK hasn't reached everyone, Mexico and Japan are big supporters for the franchise and hasn't gotten there.

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