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Thread: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Serious question, and please don't think I'm being snarky towards anyone.

    Is it really that hard in the movie to figure out what happened involving Megatron, and Quintessa once you see what happens to Prime, and then see the big red mark on his head?

    I'm not saying the movie is flawless continuity wise, but I see the Megatron issue come up a lot and it seems straightforward. I mean they could have shown him going to Cybertron but it would've been boring to show him, and Prime having the same conversation with Quintessa, on separate occasions.

    The most glarink thing for me was Bumblebee talking. However the blame for that goes to ROTF because that was the movie that retconned him getting his voice back.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    No it didn't.

    TF:RotF very clearly explains that Bee was still having trouble talking and was "playing it up."

    And Bee spoke with his REAL voice in TF:TLK, which is NOT the voice heard at the end of the first movie. Optimus hadn't heard Bee's genuine voice since before that.

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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    No it didn't.

    TF:RotF very clearly explains that Bee was still having trouble talking and was "playing it up."

    And Bee spoke with his REAL voice in TF:TLK, which is NOT the voice heard at the end of the first movie. Optimus hadn't heard Bee's genuine voice since before that.
    Yeah sure...

    but you must admit that it could've been explained better by Sam. I mean if you're a big fan it can be explained away easily like you just have. But it's the one question my family (who aren't big fans) always asked me. "How come he can't speak after the first?"

    Now I always used the same explanation as you, but I don't think it sounds as convincing as it could.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    You can't really admit that the explanation was literally delivered as succinctly and directly as possible and then accuse the movies of being dumb because someone didn't get it and/or wasn't paying attention.

    That's not how storytelling works.

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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    You can't really admit that the explanation was literally delivered as succinctly and directly as possible and then accuse the movies of being dumb because someone didn't get it and/or wasn't paying attention.

    That's not how storytelling works.

    That's not what I'm admitting though. What I'm saying is the explanation that you put forward makes sense. However I don't believe it's delivered succinctly in ROTF itself. The way it's played out in the movie makes it a tad unclear.

    Anyhow it's a minor point in the grand scheme of things. And I would never accuse the movies of being dumb, I love these films! I think most of the criticisms about continuity can be explained away very easily.

    Just the Bumblebee thing I can see where people are coming from kind of. The reason I brought it up though was in defence of The Last Knight as it was ROTF that established he still couldn't speak.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Mikaela: "Still having trouble with your voice?"

    Bumblebee: "Mm-hmm."

    Sam: "He's playing it up."


    That's about as clear and succinct as it gets, lol.

    Anyone who doesn't get it simply isn't paying attention.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    THIS.

    I'd add that Optimus specifically asked what QUINTESSA had done to Cybertron, not what happened to it in general. And regardless of the details, Galvatron was clearly bitchslapped by Quintessa like Optimus. The metal spikes were hardly "useless."

    Also disagreed about those last two paragraphs entirely.

    :-\
    Answer this.

    When Cybertron was being beamed to Earth at the end of Dark of the Moon, why did that not awake Unicron then?

    The problem I think will happen with Unicron in these movies, is that they are going to just make him an indirect threat. He will be virtually useless, but he will either control or do things that make him appear as a threat. In other words, expect the Decepticons to become more of a threat ala Dark of the Moon. But for Unicron itself, since it's Earth, to be pretty overall useless himself. Because well, if he's destroyed, Earth is destroyed. It's a cheap route to go honestly.

    Making him Earth was a Transformers: Prime reference. But we all know he won't go the Transformers: Prime route for the movies.

  8. #58

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    I always thought it was a cool plot-twist for TF:Prime and I enjoyed his "avatars" in his stead but it's ultimately as lame as never seeing Cybertron transform into Primus, tbh. He can't just be the sleeping giant who never comes into play, that just sucks.

    Personally, I would've made Unicron THE MOON instead...with the added bonus of playing up "the dark of the moon." Cybertron slips into orbit in his place once Unicron's destroyed and all's well that ends well.

    But getting back to your earlier point, it's really a non-issue. As Sentinel establishes, his pillars defy physics as WE know them to be with our incomplete understanding. And they weren't done transporting Cybertron here yet so the physics of the pillars were still VERY MUCH a factor.

    Therefore, the same explanation for Cybertron's close proximity to Earth NOT affecting our gravity/tides/etc. applies to Cybertron not yet awakening Unicron (or w/e) during TF:DotM. Cybertron, quite simply put, WAS NOT FULLY HERE yet, so none of that "science" applies.

    Cybertron half-existed in our atmosphere out-of-nowhere for like 10 minutes before immediately imploding and disappearing back from whence it came.

    Unicron probably barely even farted in his sleep over that, lol.

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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Mikaela: "Still having trouble with your voice?"

    Bumblebee: "Mm-hmm."

    Sam: "He's playing it up."


    That's about as clear and succinct as it gets, lol.

    Anyone who doesn't get it simply isn't paying attention.
    See in my view it's the Sam line that has made some people confused all these years.

    Sams line in that scene makes it sound like Bumblebee is faking because of the trouble he's just caused.

    Its the "playing it up" line that's been the problem. Now like I said it's a minor thing for me, but when people are a bit unsure on the Bumblebee voice thing I can kind of see where it all started.

  10. #60

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Sure, because non-obsessed fans TOTALLY obsess over syntax, lol.

    "He's playing it up" means Bee uses the radio because he COULD talk more but prefers to use the radio-samples instead, whether due to pain or a need for sympathy. In essence, he's overplaying the difficulty he has in using whatever voice he can to get by.

    Which in no way whatsoever takes away from the idea that the voice he used in TF '07 was still NOT HIS REAL VOICE.

    Confusion = not paying attention and/or not connecting the dots, imho.

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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Sure, because non-obsessed fans TOTALLY obsess over syntax, lol.

    "He's playing it up" means Bee uses the radio because he COULD talk more but prefers to use the radio-samples instead, whether due to pain or a need for sympathy. In essence, he's overplaying the difficulty he has in using whatever voice he can to get by.

    Which in no way whatsoever takes away from the idea that the voice he used in TF '07 was still NOT HIS REAL VOICE.

    Confusion = not paying attention and/or not connecting the dots, imho.

    See I'm not really disagreeing with any of your explanations.

    However the issue of Bumblebees voice comes up time, and again with fans, and general audience members alike.

    Also the end of the first movie did intend for that to be Bees' voice, and then they changed it, because the radio and beeping noises made Bee more charming. So it was a retcon, and the retcon could've been more clear.

    Look I love these flicks but there not exempt from criticism. Surely despite your explanations(which I agree with btw) you can see why, and where the confusion from Bees voice stems from.

  12. #62

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Nothing is exempt from criticism.

    Could they have wasted 20 minutes discussing nothing but why Bee wasn't talking anymore after the end of the first movie so the mouthbreathers in the crowd could sleep at night? Sure.

    But, instead, they found a way to clearly and succinctly address it and move along. It's not their fault if hardcore fans or general audience members alike were too addicted to their cellphones or w/e to see what was practically served up on a silver platter for them. Literally THE VERY FIRST TIME Bee doesn't talk again they IMMEDIATELY addressed exactly WHY he didn't and that was that. It was about as direct and straightforward as it could possibly have been.

    And these aren't MY explanations.

    I'm just repeating what the movies themselves already established.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by i-MAN View Post
    - Demanding Cogman's transformation in TF6.
    When you come to think of it, Cogman is actually a downgrade from Alice (ROTF).

    The Alice platform was just so much more high tech.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    You're thinking in terms of movie release date chronology when you should be thinking in terms of the plotline instead.

    Cogman was here FOREVER ago.

    Alice was an UPGRADE, rather than Cogman being a "downgrade."

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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by fu2kimus_prime View Post
    Serious question, and please don't think I'm being snarky towards anyone.

    Is it really that hard in the movie to figure out what happened involving Megatron, and Quintessa once you see what happens to Prime, and then see the big red mark on his head?
    Yeah, and when did that happen? He just showed up like that. No explanation whatsoever, It's just him showing up and suddenly working for Quintessa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    No it didn't.

    TF:RotF very clearly explains that Bee was still having trouble talking and was "playing it up."

    And Bee spoke with his REAL voice in TF:TLK, which is NOT the voice heard at the end of the first movie. Optimus hadn't heard Bee's genuine voice since before that.
    If he's really playing it up, then why the hell would they go through all the trouble of getting him a new Voice?
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post

    Personally, I would've made Unicron THE MOON instead...with the added bonus of playing up "the dark of the moon." Cybertron slips into orbit in his place once Unicron's destroyed and all's well that ends well.
    Except what's left of cybertron is bigger than the moon and has a greater mass and would probably cause environmental changes on Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post

    But getting back to your earlier point, it's really a non-issue. As Sentinel establishes, his pillars defy physics as WE know them to be with our incomplete understanding. And they weren't done transporting Cybertron here yet so the physics of the pillars were still VERY MUCH a factor.
    Except the Pillars don't exist anymore and were not used to transport Cybertron the second time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Therefore, the same explanation for Cybertron's close proximity to Earth NOT affecting our gravity/tides/etc. applies to Cybertron not yet awakening Unicron (or w/e) during TFotM. Cybertron, quite simply put, WAS NOT FULLY HERE yet, so none of that "science" applies.
    At the end of the film Cybertron is physically attached to the Earth, It's got to have some effect on the atmosphere and the enviroment in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Cybertron half-existed in our atmosphere out-of-nowhere for like 10 minutes before immediately imploding and disappearing back from whence it came.
    Cybertron was not in Earth's Atmosphere at the end of DTM. At least I don't think so.
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by MrX View Post
    Yeah, and when did that happen? He just showed up like that. No explanation whatsoever, It's just him showing up and suddenly working for Quintessa.


    If he's really playing it up, then why the hell would they go through all the trouble of getting him a new Voice?
    Well it happened off screen between AOE and TLK. Like I said they could have shown it but it would've been boring as I assume that it took less persuading than it did with Prime.

    See it's the "playing it up" line that has caused much of the debate about his voice.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post

    Personally, I would've made Unicron THE MOON instead...with the added bonus of playing up "the dark of the moon." Cybertron slips into orbit in his place once Unicron's destroyed and all's well that ends well.
    I would've had Optimus encounter Unicron in Space rather than Cybertron and have Unicron head to Earth.

    It just occurred to me as I was watching the first movie that the reason why the transformers kept coming to Earth was because Optimus Sent that message. "We are here, we are waiting." So any Transformer would've picked up on that signal and arrived on Earth. Not to mention they keep hiding stuff here.
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lbrosfilm View Post
    I'm gonna side with you here, dude. I've spent all day collecting my thoughts:

    For the first time in ten years I walked out of a TF movie disappointed. Disappointed that it wasn't better, that it didn't live up to my hype; to my fond memories of ROTF and DOTM. Last night I saw the movie twice. Once in IMAX 3D, the second in RealD and in DBox. But at the end of the long night, it was like waking up knowing that Santa isn't real.

    It sucks too. I want to like this, love it even. For all my years of film school I defended Michael as a genius auteur who's in a league of his own, and as one of our greatest living filmmakers. I still hold to this sentiment, but The Last Knight leaves me baffled. The sheer amount of brainless stupidity thrown around here is inconceivable. Almost every moment left me questioning it: "What is Michael doing?" I thought. All the other films, no matter how dumb some moments got, always had an element of fun to them. A steady stream of fun. running throughout, pumping the movies with a child like sense of wonder. But The Last Knight felt cynical to me. And I think its my fault...

    I have to wonder... have all my years of screenwriting classes turned me into a film snob? One who gaffs at directors like Michael? I wouldn't describe myself as one by any means, and that's why I'm more mad at myself than I am at the film. Why can't I enjoy this. It's an awful feeling to want to love something so dearly, only to be constantly questioning yourself.

    I love Michael and his films. He's a goddamn genius. But something here was off. It wasn't clicking. There were pieces but not a whole. It felt like the movie magic of the others (the first film especially) had been blown away. I might be over dramatic here, but these films have been a huge part of my life. Maybe I'm in a weird state of mind right now.


    Anyways,

    Things I liked:
    the IMAX 3D
    Cogman
    Hopkins
    Frank Welker and this version of Megatron
    the action sequence in London (going to the library, Bee/Barricade chase)
    Bee finally getting to speak again
    Day Trader
    I feel the same way you do and I can assure you, its not you, its the movie.

    My connection to the Transformers movies and Michael Bay is very similar to yours. I love his movies and I think the Transformers movies are artistic, expressionistic masterpieces and some of the best movies of all time, especially the first and third one and I will always defend Michael Bay as one of the great genius directors of filmmaking. Watching the first Transformers movies in the cinema changed my life and inspired me to become a movie director myself - a dream that I have pursued ever since.

    However, I feel the same way you do about "The Last Knight". While I was sitting in the cinema, I could barely believe what I was seeing. I looked forward to this movie, expecting to be amazed and inspired by Michael Bays work once again. But instead the movie disappointed me from the very first moment and throughout almost every scene I was thinking "how could Michael Bay make a movie this bad". This isnt a Transformers movie, not really. It lacks all the things that make the Transformers movies what they are. It lacks the artistic direction, the great pacing, the amazing music, the tight script, the groundbreaking CGI and amazing sound design that define the other four Transformers movies. Even the action in this movie is completely lackluster.

    It lacks all the things that make the Transformers movies special to us, thats why you dont like it. Your taste hasnt changed, its just that this is genuinely a bad movie.

    Even arguably the second worst Transformers movie, Revenge of the Fallen, still had alot of amazing qualities and was overall still a very inspired and creative movie, made with a vision and love behind it. But not this one. The entire movie just feels like it was made without any love or care put into it. Like all the creativity was drained out of it.

    The other four Transformers movies are still great and I love them and the influence they had on my life and continue to have will never be undone. However, this one is a true failure and I guess thats alright. Afterall, we have 5 Transformers movies now and its expected that one of them might be really bad. Im just sort of sad that Michael Bay will leave the franchise with this failure of a movie.

    So no, its not you and its not your fault. You dont have to doubt if you can still like the kind of movies Michael Bay makes. You can. Its just that this one happens to not be a good movie by any measure. I never thought I would be disappointed while watching a Transformers movie by Michael Bay in the cinema, but I was.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    There was lots of history in the movie.. but.... America is going down the shitter as we speak..your crazy lefties over there are erasing your history.. question is.. what are you guys going to do about it... Mike..?
    When i Transform i release rockets with nanobot-viruses that destroys you from within... the fuel inside you will turn into acid, metal will melt instantly...
    I'm a decepticon and my name is _____ All Hail Megatron!

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Digital version's out, and I'm noticing some changes about.

    First, and my favourite one: The credits are back! They are proper scrolling credits like in the previous ones, and longer. The theatrical cut had the Torches song and it ended with the credits, here they finish up the credits with Merlin's Staff and Ospreys from the soundtrack.

    Second, the IMAX. I figured it'd' be widescreen like AOE and 3D IMAX but the whole movie is IMAX with the few bits of widescreen.

    Haven't seen much change, other than a Quintessa line, before Bee shoots here. In my cinemas I got a "Nemesis, you traitor" but here is just traitor. WOnder what else is different but I doubt there's much.

    Still wanted a proper transforming title.

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    The more i see this movie, the more its failings jump out at me. i thought of making a list of the incoherences but that just saddened me more.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    It's a good film to watch together with the family or group of friends and have a fun movie time together. But it's not a good movie to watch alone, like if you're going to have a serious one on one with it and critic the movie and stuffs, because you're going to find a s***load of flaws.

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    Unhappy Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*


  25. #75
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    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    It's a good film to watch together with the family or group of friends and have a fun movie time together. But it's not a good movie to watch alone, like if you're going to have a serious one on one with it and critic the movie and stuffs, because you're going to find a s***load of flaws.
    I think it depends on the friends. I know the Friends I hung out with hated the movie when we saw it in theaters, and these a people who enjoyed the first four films so they are not Micheal Bay haters.
    "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
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