Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 67 of 67

Thread: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

  1. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Serious question, and please don't think I'm being snarky towards anyone.

    Is it really that hard in the movie to figure out what happened involving Megatron, and Quintessa once you see what happens to Prime, and then see the big red mark on his head?

    I'm not saying the movie is flawless continuity wise, but I see the Megatron issue come up a lot and it seems straightforward. I mean they could have shown him going to Cybertron but it would've been boring to show him, and Prime having the same conversation with Quintessa, on separate occasions.

    The most glarink thing for me was Bumblebee talking. However the blame for that goes to ROTF because that was the movie that retconned him getting his voice back.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    No it didn't.

    TF:RotF very clearly explains that Bee was still having trouble talking and was "playing it up."

    And Bee spoke with his REAL voice in TF:TLK, which is NOT the voice heard at the end of the first movie. Optimus hadn't heard Bee's genuine voice since before that.

  3. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    No it didn't.

    TF:RotF very clearly explains that Bee was still having trouble talking and was "playing it up."

    And Bee spoke with his REAL voice in TF:TLK, which is NOT the voice heard at the end of the first movie. Optimus hadn't heard Bee's genuine voice since before that.
    Yeah sure...

    but you must admit that it could've been explained better by Sam. I mean if you're a big fan it can be explained away easily like you just have. But it's the one question my family (who aren't big fans) always asked me. "How come he can't speak after the first?"

    Now I always used the same explanation as you, but I don't think it sounds as convincing as it could.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    You can't really admit that the explanation was literally delivered as succinctly and directly as possible and then accuse the movies of being dumb because someone didn't get it and/or wasn't paying attention.

    That's not how storytelling works.

  5. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    You can't really admit that the explanation was literally delivered as succinctly and directly as possible and then accuse the movies of being dumb because someone didn't get it and/or wasn't paying attention.

    That's not how storytelling works.

    That's not what I'm admitting though. What I'm saying is the explanation that you put forward makes sense. However I don't believe it's delivered succinctly in ROTF itself. The way it's played out in the movie makes it a tad unclear.

    Anyhow it's a minor point in the grand scheme of things. And I would never accuse the movies of being dumb, I love these films! I think most of the criticisms about continuity can be explained away very easily.

    Just the Bumblebee thing I can see where people are coming from kind of. The reason I brought it up though was in defence of The Last Knight as it was ROTF that established he still couldn't speak.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Mikaela: "Still having trouble with your voice?"

    Bumblebee: "Mm-hmm."

    Sam: "He's playing it up."


    That's about as clear and succinct as it gets, lol.

    Anyone who doesn't get it simply isn't paying attention.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    THIS.

    I'd add that Optimus specifically asked what QUINTESSA had done to Cybertron, not what happened to it in general. And regardless of the details, Galvatron was clearly bitchslapped by Quintessa like Optimus. The metal spikes were hardly "useless."

    Also disagreed about those last two paragraphs entirely.

    :-\
    Answer this.

    When Cybertron was being beamed to Earth at the end of Dark of the Moon, why did that not awake Unicron then?

    The problem I think will happen with Unicron in these movies, is that they are going to just make him an indirect threat. He will be virtually useless, but he will either control or do things that make him appear as a threat. In other words, expect the Decepticons to become more of a threat ala Dark of the Moon. But for Unicron itself, since it's Earth, to be pretty overall useless himself. Because well, if he's destroyed, Earth is destroyed. It's a cheap route to go honestly.

    Making him Earth was a Transformers: Prime reference. But we all know he won't go the Transformers: Prime route for the movies.

  8. #58

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    I always thought it was a cool plot-twist for TF:Prime and I enjoyed his "avatars" in his stead but it's ultimately as lame as never seeing Cybertron transform into Primus, tbh. He can't just be the sleeping giant who never comes into play, that just sucks.

    Personally, I would've made Unicron THE MOON instead...with the added bonus of playing up "the dark of the moon." Cybertron slips into orbit in his place once Unicron's destroyed and all's well that ends well.

    But getting back to your earlier point, it's really a non-issue. As Sentinel establishes, his pillars defy physics as WE know them to be with our incomplete understanding. And they weren't done transporting Cybertron here yet so the physics of the pillars were still VERY MUCH a factor.

    Therefore, the same explanation for Cybertron's close proximity to Earth NOT affecting our gravity/tides/etc. applies to Cybertron not yet awakening Unicron (or w/e) during TF:DotM. Cybertron, quite simply put, WAS NOT FULLY HERE yet, so none of that "science" applies.

    Cybertron half-existed in our atmosphere out-of-nowhere for like 10 minutes before immediately imploding and disappearing back from whence it came.

    Unicron probably barely even farted in his sleep over that, lol.

  9. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Mikaela: "Still having trouble with your voice?"

    Bumblebee: "Mm-hmm."

    Sam: "He's playing it up."


    That's about as clear and succinct as it gets, lol.

    Anyone who doesn't get it simply isn't paying attention.
    See in my view it's the Sam line that has made some people confused all these years.

    Sams line in that scene makes it sound like Bumblebee is faking because of the trouble he's just caused.

    Its the "playing it up" line that's been the problem. Now like I said it's a minor thing for me, but when people are a bit unsure on the Bumblebee voice thing I can kind of see where it all started.

  10. #60

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Sure, because non-obsessed fans TOTALLY obsess over syntax, lol.

    "He's playing it up" means Bee uses the radio because he COULD talk more but prefers to use the radio-samples instead, whether due to pain or a need for sympathy. In essence, he's overplaying the difficulty he has in using whatever voice he can to get by.

    Which in no way whatsoever takes away from the idea that the voice he used in TF '07 was still NOT HIS REAL VOICE.

    Confusion = not paying attention and/or not connecting the dots, imho.

  11. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Sure, because non-obsessed fans TOTALLY obsess over syntax, lol.

    "He's playing it up" means Bee uses the radio because he COULD talk more but prefers to use the radio-samples instead, whether due to pain or a need for sympathy. In essence, he's overplaying the difficulty he has in using whatever voice he can to get by.

    Which in no way whatsoever takes away from the idea that the voice he used in TF '07 was still NOT HIS REAL VOICE.

    Confusion = not paying attention and/or not connecting the dots, imho.

    See I'm not really disagreeing with any of your explanations.

    However the issue of Bumblebees voice comes up time, and again with fans, and general audience members alike.

    Also the end of the first movie did intend for that to be Bees' voice, and then they changed it, because the radio and beeping noises made Bee more charming. So it was a retcon, and the retcon could've been more clear.

    Look I love these flicks but there not exempt from criticism. Surely despite your explanations(which I agree with btw) you can see why, and where the confusion from Bees voice stems from.

  12. #62

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Nothing is exempt from criticism.

    Could they have wasted 20 minutes discussing nothing but why Bee wasn't talking anymore after the end of the first movie so the mouthbreathers in the crowd could sleep at night? Sure.

    But, instead, they found a way to clearly and succinctly address it and move along. It's not their fault if hardcore fans or general audience members alike were too addicted to their cellphones or w/e to see what was practically served up on a silver platter for them. Literally THE VERY FIRST TIME Bee doesn't talk again they IMMEDIATELY addressed exactly WHY he didn't and that was that. It was about as direct and straightforward as it could possibly have been.

    And these aren't MY explanations.

    I'm just repeating what the movies themselves already established.

  13. #63
    Senior Member Razor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Unicron
    Posts
    1,345

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by i-MAN View Post
    - Demanding Cogman's transformation in TF6.
    When you come to think of it, Cogman is actually a downgrade from Alice (ROTF).

    The Alice platform was just so much more high tech.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    You're thinking in terms of movie release date chronology when you should be thinking in terms of the plotline instead.

    Cogman was here FOREVER ago.

    Alice was an UPGRADE, rather than Cogman being a "downgrade."

  15. #65
    Senior Member MrX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    1,672

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by fu2kimus_prime View Post
    Serious question, and please don't think I'm being snarky towards anyone.

    Is it really that hard in the movie to figure out what happened involving Megatron, and Quintessa once you see what happens to Prime, and then see the big red mark on his head?
    Yeah, and when did that happen? He just showed up like that. No explanation whatsoever, It's just him showing up and suddenly working for Quintessa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    No it didn't.

    TF:RotF very clearly explains that Bee was still having trouble talking and was "playing it up."

    And Bee spoke with his REAL voice in TF:TLK, which is NOT the voice heard at the end of the first movie. Optimus hadn't heard Bee's genuine voice since before that.
    If he's really playing it up, then why the hell would they go through all the trouble of getting him a new Voice?
    "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
    -John Wayne (The Shootist)

  16. #66
    Senior Member MrX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    1,672

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post

    Personally, I would've made Unicron THE MOON instead...with the added bonus of playing up "the dark of the moon." Cybertron slips into orbit in his place once Unicron's destroyed and all's well that ends well.
    Except what's left of cybertron is bigger than the moon and has a greater mass and would probably cause environmental changes on Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post

    But getting back to your earlier point, it's really a non-issue. As Sentinel establishes, his pillars defy physics as WE know them to be with our incomplete understanding. And they weren't done transporting Cybertron here yet so the physics of the pillars were still VERY MUCH a factor.
    Except the Pillars don't exist anymore and were not used to transport Cybertron the second time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Therefore, the same explanation for Cybertron's close proximity to Earth NOT affecting our gravity/tides/etc. applies to Cybertron not yet awakening Unicron (or w/e) during TFotM. Cybertron, quite simply put, WAS NOT FULLY HERE yet, so none of that "science" applies.
    At the end of the film Cybertron is physically attached to the Earth, It's got to have some effect on the atmosphere and the enviroment in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Cybertron half-existed in our atmosphere out-of-nowhere for like 10 minutes before immediately imploding and disappearing back from whence it came.
    Cybertron was not in Earth's Atmosphere at the end of DTM. At least I don't think so.
    "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
    -John Wayne (The Shootist)

  17. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Transformers: The Last Knight Discussion/Analysis/Thoughts *Warning-Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by MrX View Post
    Yeah, and when did that happen? He just showed up like that. No explanation whatsoever, It's just him showing up and suddenly working for Quintessa.


    If he's really playing it up, then why the hell would they go through all the trouble of getting him a new Voice?
    Well it happened off screen between AOE and TLK. Like I said they could have shown it but it would've been boring as I assume that it took less persuading than it did with Prime.

    See it's the "playing it up" line that has caused much of the debate about his voice.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •