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Thread: What we know and don't know

  1. #1

    Default What we know and don't know

    I've watched AOE numerous times now and each time I notice things I didn't notice before. And some things I still can't figure out.

    A few of them:

    The creators are organic with a metal endoskeleton. This raises a few questions in and of itself. Remember, some of the creatures on Lockdowns ship were organic.

    Crosshairs. I totally get the vibe that he was an unwilling Autobot participant. The complete opposite of Drift. However I do like that each of their personalities were stronger.

    The Dinobots origin story. Even after multiple viewings I am absolutely dumbfounded. There were competing stories in the movie. There was the impression they were created inadvertently by the seeds dropped on earth during the dino era. Yet you see Grimlock in Lockdowns trophy case. And the other Dinobots just seem to randomly appear. With no real answer as to how they were created. Or how Lockdown got Grimlock. They were just 'there'.

    The acting. This was a horribly mixed bag. Most of the actors I think did great. However the dialogue...especially after multiple viewings really...I hate to say it...but it seemed forced. With quite a few awkward and cheesy moments. Where you can tell the actor didn't believe what they were saying. It was just out of place. And IMO, I think the oul language coming from the Autobots should be less. It just doesn't fit who they are unless they are. The Decepticons, fine. And even then it should be minimized.

    The Transformer dialogue was even awkward. Hound, the dialogue seemed random and almost worthless and out of place. Yet the character and John Goodman I think are great. John did what he could with what he had. IMO Lockdown and Prime stole the show for Transformers. I see tons of potential with a more sinister and evil Galvatron. He needs Lockdowns general sense of humor. None. That would make him more menacing and a more serious threat.

    Bumblebee. His personality seemed a bit off from the other movies. But that could be because of all of the other things going on and Transformers being introduced.

    Michael Bay had said long before the movie released that there were plot holes and such left in the movie with no explanation or purpose. They serve a purpose but wouldn't be visited this time around, but would be referred to in the coming movies. Where in TF 5 and 6 they'll reference something in TF4 that'll make you go, "How did I miss that!". IMO smart. Although maddening for those of us trying to figure out this Rubix Cube. lol

    I know some ask how the Dinobots could just suddenly disappear. Simple. They blend in with Chameleon like abilities. Problem solved.

    The new Transformers. Some hate the new transforming effect. But when you watch and listen to the behind scenes stuff it all makes perfect sense why it was used. Problem is much of the public didn't have that explained to them and were left to be confused. The new Transformers were to have a sleek corporate look. Same with their Transformations. So it makes the real Transformers look like old hat and not as cool essentially. But I feel by the next movie it'll be back to mostly the original Transformations. Galvatron could shun the new Transformation style because he wants to shun his human created elements.

    Nemesis Prime. He was absolutely referenced in AOE. They were trying to create a clone of Optimus Prime. Instead Megatron was infecting their program to re-create himself. So Nemesis Prime absolutely was in the cards.

    The death of Ratchet. Wow. Serious props there though. Brutal and unforgiving. Very sad and hard to watch. It was great. Some question why Prime was so upset because humans were melting him down, yet didn't seem phased by Jazz, Ironhides, or Jetfires deaths. Simple. None were caused by humans. They were caused by an evil Decepticon antagonist. They were killed then the Decepticon moved on. Whereas with Ratchet he was flat out slaughtered, butchered, and mutilated after death by the humans. It was honestly the most severe thing I've seen done post death in a Transformers movie by humans to Transformers thus far. He was dead and they still weren't done with him. Very brutal and very understandable with Primes reactions about it.

    So what's next for the Transformers? Which ones will return and which ones won't. Also I think it's now reach a point they need to validate that even though you may only see 5 Transformers or so at a time, it's obvious every time they think they are alone, they aren't. That they are scattered across the universe like sand on a beach and could be anywhere at any time. AOE made it appear like only the 5 of them were left. That all other Autobots and Decepticons had been hunted down and killed. And the Dinobots happened to fall into their lap as help. But we know by now there are always more. Especially if new Autobots and Decepticons appear in the next movie. And you know they will. IMO this needs to be easily and quickly addressed.

    IMO AOE got a lot of things right too. But I think the script and it's dialogue really need to be strengthened and the runtime shortened a tad bit. Focus and concentrate. Hopefully TF 5 and 6 can tie up and answer some of AOE's loose ends. By doing so it'll strengthen AOE by default. Making it more understandable to those that couldn't follow it all, and making it a better movie in the process.

    Who all saw Michael in the truck Prime and Bee fly through on the bridge while being chased by Galvatron?

    Michael, if you're out there, thank you for all you have done. Some may diss on you and the movies. But you did more for the TF franchise than anyone I know. And for that alone, thank you. The movies aren't perfect and never were meant to be. They are based off a toys and were meant to sell toys. But much like any amusement park, were meant to be a few hours of fun away from a crazy world and were never meant to be taken too seriously. Each movie had it's own issues and mistakes, but also fixed older ones. You learned as you went, while still adding your own flavor. And hey you introduced the Dinobots. That alone gets you a great big hug from many many fans.

    Now, about Bad Boys 3.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mech_1000's Avatar
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    Default Re: What we know and don't know

    td;dr, anyways here I go... (crap I did read... well most of it)

    Creators with an endoskelleton were the Quitessens. Learn more about them in the original TF cartoon seasons 3 and 4.

    In your depiction he might be relevant to Mirage, since Mirage was an Autobot but didn't appreciate the war/fighting

    Dinobots could have been created during that opening cinematic, however, as the movie has shown any living thing caught in that chemical explosion dies and turns to metal... if otherwise since not specified, Lucas (TJ Miller) dieing could be reborn as a Quitessen creation. Else, the dinobot characters were scanned/created before that invasion. However seeing as Optimus is one of the "Knights", he would also then belong to the era of the Dinobots creation.

    Acting seemed fine... we're not here to win best drama...

    I think Bumblebees change had a lot to do with him not having his guardian (Sam), which added a lot to his childish nature... maybe they were trying to step it up --- and possibly start leading him into a more leadership role... which would be a bad idea imo.

    Too early to think about 5 and 6, depending on if Bay is directing... but if its not a continuation of this movie then that leaves Optimus Prime out of the picture and I would doubt they would do that.

    imo, I would say the new transformer transformations were probably due to how they were created from the labs and coding explained in the movie (when hes advertising all the stuff with his hand and the floating tf material), thus not being legitimate Quitessen creation... but I did find that to be a negative.

    Nemesis Prime; error 404 (it was megatron)

    Jazz, Ironhide, and Jetfire were casualties of war. Ratchet was a casualty of hate. Then his body was mutilated for research.

    If im wrong on anything or anyone has a better idea let me know

  3. #3

    Default Re: What we know and don't know

    Quote Originally Posted by Mech_1000 View Post
    td;dr, anyways here I go... (crap I did read... well most of it)

    Creators with an endoskelleton were the Quitessens. Learn more about them in the original TF cartoon seasons 3 and 4.

    In your depiction he might be relevant to Mirage, since Mirage was an Autobot but didn't appreciate the war/fighting

    Dinobots could have been created during that opening cinematic, however, as the movie has shown any living thing caught in that chemical explosion dies and turns to metal... if otherwise since not specified, Lucas (TJ Miller) dieing could be reborn as a Quitessen creation. Else, the dinobot characters were scanned/created before that invasion. However seeing as Optimus is one of the "Knights", he would also then belong to the era of the Dinobots creation.

    Acting seemed fine... we're not here to win best drama...

    I think Bumblebees change had a lot to do with him not having his guardian (Sam), which added a lot to his childish nature... maybe they were trying to step it up --- and possibly start leading him into a more leadership role... which would be a bad idea imo.

    Too early to think about 5 and 6, depending on if Bay is directing... but if its not a continuation of this movie then that leaves Optimus Prime out of the picture and I would doubt they would do that.

    imo, I would say the new transformer transformations were probably due to how they were created from the labs and coding explained in the movie (when hes advertising all the stuff with his hand and the floating tf material), thus not being legitimate Quitessen creation... but I did find that to be a negative.

    Nemesis Prime; error 404 (it was megatron)

    Jazz, Ironhide, and Jetfire were casualties of war. Ratchet was a casualty of hate. Then his body was mutilated for research.

    If im wrong on anything or anyone has a better idea let me know
    In regards to the Creators. Most fans are just assuming they are the Quintessons. Bay has been known to switch things up. They may be the equivalent to them or they may be them...or they may be neither. Right now it's just an assumption.

    In regards to Crosshairs. Mirage was already played in TF 3 as Dino. Personality wise I don't think thats it either.

    The Dinobot creation was convoluted in AOE. There was no real conclusion as to how they were created, how Grimlock got on Lockdowns ship, or where on earth the other Dinobots came from seeing as how they were all too big to fit in that small sub-ship that detached from Lockdowns main ship and weren't even hinted at up to their appearance. Right now, their story in AOE is not clear cut and is missing quite a bit of info.

    I saw nothing in AOE that would hint at Bumblebee becoming a leader.

    I think some are taking Primes leaving earth at the end of AOE as a sign he's not gonna be on earth much in the next one. I call foul on that. They can use the time between the 2 movies to have him arrive and do some damage. Then speed back to Earth in a spaceship in no time to still be on Earth in half the movie. I suspect his time in space will be minimal.

    Did you hear what they said in the movie by Joshua in the movie? They kept trying to build Optimus Prime. But every time they tried, the build would keep looking like Megatron because Megatron was infecting things. Joshua threw a fit because of that. They wanted a Prime clone. Not a Megatron clone. Thus also likely why Megatron transformed into the Black flat nosed semi...like Nemesis Prime.

    So yes, absolutely, Nemesis Prime was the original intention for Joshua and his company. But Megatron kept changing the schematics to be more like...well...his old self. Which resulted in the Galvatron we see. Thus why Galvatron was a black semi, but looked like Megatron when he transformed. Remember many thought it was either originally Nemesis Prime or Motormaster. There is good reason for those assumptions and one ended up being half right.

    Ratchet may be mutilated for 'research'. But he was still Primes friend. Even though it was never directly mentioned, I suspect Leadfoot and the others had the same fate but only Ratchet was shown. And seeing what they were doing to him sent Prime off the deep end. Up till that point, Prime and the other Autobots had no clue. This was again referenced between Joshua and Prime at the testing facility after the Autobots invaded and Prime and Joshua had a 'discussion'.

    Joshua was seeing them as dead metal. Prime was seeing them as his dead friends, not human technology or metal to be exploited. Essentially this brings on a moral dilemma.

    Joshua Joyce: Hey! Hey! Hey! Stop! That's company property!
    Optimus Prime: They're not your property! They were my friends.
    Brains: Oh, you ain't talking so much now! You got Hound in front of you, huh?
    Joshua Joyce: Go ahead. Show us your true colors, once and for all.
    Hound: Just give me the word, I'll splatter him.
    Joshua Joyce: Why don't you tell Itchy Fingers here that this is all the spoils of war. Dead metal. Innovation. What we do here is science, because if we don't do it, somebody else will. Because you cannot stop technology!
    Optimus Prime: We're not your technology!
    Hound: Let me vaporize his ass.
    Joshua Joyce: I broke the code. I own your whole genome.
    Optimus Prime: The world will know what you're doing here.
    Joshua Joyce: The world? The world will approve. We can make you now. Don't you get it? We don't need you anymore.
    Hound: That was cruel.
    Optimus Prime: Autobots, we're done.
    Brains: We're done? We're not gonna kick a little bit of ass?
    Hound: I've been itching to kill something lately.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Razor's Avatar
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    Default Re: What we know and don't know

    Quote Originally Posted by whitetigergrowl View Post

    Nemesis Prime. He was absolutely referenced in AOE. They were trying to create a clone of Optimus Prime. Instead Megatron was infecting their program to re-create himself. So Nemesis Prime absolutely was in the cards.



    Did you hear what they said in the movie by Joshua in the movie? They kept trying to build Optimus Prime. But every time they tried, the build would keep looking like Megatron because Megatron was infecting things. Joshua threw a fit because of that. They wanted a Prime clone. Not a Megatron clone. Thus also likely why Megatron transformed into the Black flat nosed semi...like Nemesis Prime.

    So yes, absolutely, Nemesis Prime was the original intention for Joshua and his company. But Megatron kept changing the schematics to be more like...well...his old self. Which resulted in the Galvatron we see. Thus why Galvatron was a black semi, but looked like Megatron when he transformed. Remember many thought it was either originally Nemesis Prime or Motormaster. There is good reason for those assumptions and one ended up being half right.
    So would you say that the Stunticons, or more specifically Dead-End was also referenced in AOE? I mean the red Pagani and all that.

    Just wanna read your opinion on that.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What we know and don't know

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    So would you say that the Stunticons, or more specifically Dead-End was also referenced in AOE? I mean the red Pagani and all that.

    Just wanna read your opinion on that.
    No they weren't. People assume that because they were Decepticon race cars then that must make them the Stunticons.

    Was Dead-End referenced as the red Pagini? Again, no.

    The problem is that while some of the Tramsformers may be mashups of other characters, there are so many other similar vehicles and Transformers it's difficult to say exactly who or what because the movie version is a twisted version of the comic version, that the realities and characters can be vastly different. Autobots can be based off Decepticons in various ways and vice versa. As well of course as being based off characters from within that faction. Its a mashup essentially. And if some want to believe some characters are based on other characters, thats fine too even if its never been confirmed.

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