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Thread: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

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    Administrator nelson's Avatar
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    Default Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Only post if you have seen the movie.

    Read the original story by Pete Collins here:

    Part 1
    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1999-12...ain-gain/full/

    Part 2
    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1999-12...in-part-2/full

    Part 3
    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-01...n-part-3/full/

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    Senior Member Bot of Badassness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    I just hope no spoilers will end up showing on the "What's New?" page. Gotta be scroll ready!
    Top 10 Movies of 2016: Hunt for the Wilderpeople, 13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi, The Conjuring 2, Finding Dory, 10 Cloverfield Lane, Deadpool, Zootopia, The Nice Guys, Me Before You, Lights Out.

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    Senior Member Lbrosfilm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    My first thoughts (sort of rambling...)

    Just got back from what is easily the most bizarre movie I've ever seen and its truly fantastic. After the first act or so, I realized that this movie stands out in Mr. Bay's filmography, meaning that its not really comparable to any of his other films. There was a ton of stuff that I never saw coming, and I understand why people have had a hard time believing this all actually happened. The camera work was incredible and is immediately identifiable as Mr. Bay's. I noticed some signature 'Bay easter eggs' like Bonecrusher the Mastiff, and the shot that moves through two rooms via holes in the walls (like in Bad Boys II & Revenge of the Fallen). I will say that some of the more 'casually-macabre' stuff was a little too much for me, but, overall the film is truly unique. Not my favorite of Mr. Bay's films, but still an enjoyable experience.

    I'll post more after I see it again.
    Ya just wanna die for the guy. Now that's leadership... Or brainwashing or something.

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    Junior Member My Ws6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Great movie! Extremely fun from start to finish. At one point it freezes and says "This is still a true story." Priceless! I saw it with my dad at at 10pm screening here in LA, the theater was 75% full and everyone seemed to love it.

    Great work MB!

    p.s. Awesome sound track and the grill scene had me on the floor when he flipped the hand like a damn burger!!!



    *Edit for adding p.s.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by My Ws6 View Post
    Great movie! Extremely fun from start to finish. At one point it freezes and says "This is still a true story." Priceless!
    I loved that as well, as it came at precisely the point where I'm sure critics would have accused Michael of taking the story over the top into fantasy.

    I also loved the very thinly disguised version of informercial king, Tom Vu.

    (Amazingly enough, now a professional poker player living in Las Vegas:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vu

    )

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Holy Sh*t.....thats what I can say at the moment. I am still in shock from seeing it, I have to go see it again soon. There was so much to soak in that I am over charged....all of which is a good thing. It was an emotional roller-coaster from beginning to end. Definitely one of the most unique and crazy stories I have ever seen or heard of.

    Congratulations Bay, this movie is awesome. I cannot wait to go see it again, its just crazy.....

    I truly have nothing bad to say about it, the whole theater enjoyed this movie.

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    Senior Member Z/28's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Just got back from the theatre. First off, I cant stress enough how much i love Bays shooting style and cinematography.
    So much to take in, well have to see it again. Loved it so much, we were laughing so much.
    "Drivers dont pick the cars. Cars pick the drivers"

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    Senior Member Z/28's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    One thing i have to add, even though I know those guys are thieves and murderers. Theres a part of me that sympathizes with them and wanted them to get away with it. Maybe because fitness is a big part of my life too. I didnt quite know what to expect going into the theatre. But i think this story needed to be told.
    Truth is stranger than fiction.
    One thing you can learn from this movie. Weather your rich or poor, fat or fit. Be nice to people.
    "Drivers dont pick the cars. Cars pick the drivers"

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    Administrator nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    For those of you that haven't read the original article, here are 4 things that stand out:

    1.- The article is more over-the-top and gory that the movie.

    2.- In real life, Tony Shalhoub's character get's arrested after the trial for "orchestrating a fraudulent Medicare billing scheme that generated somewhere around $14 million." In the movie he doesn't get arrested and that isn't even mentioned.*

    3.- The Rock's character is fictional. It's an amalgamation of Carl Weekes (relapsing drug addiction, house burglaries, born again Christian) & All "Big Mario" Sanchez (physical size used for intimidation, initial refusing to carry out the crime)

    4.- Krenshaw did not identify Lugo through his perfume while being held hostage and blindfolded. He "...recognized Lugo's distinctive voice, which had reminded him of Mike Tyson's lisp with a New York accent. And he knew only Delgado could be the source of information his captors already knew and were merely asking him to confirm: the house alarm codes, the money locations.

    *In real life, the surviving victim has gone around the media saying that this movie made him look bad. That is not the case.

    Part 1
    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1999-12...ain-gain/full/

    Part 2
    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1999-12...in-part-2/full

    Part 3
    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-01...n-part-3/full/

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    In a weird, weird way the movie (and everything around it) reminds me of "Fight Cub" and the way it was received in 1999. One thing's for sure though - just like "Fight Club" "Pain & Gain" is not for everybody. If you go in expecting to see a quirky comedy you will be disappointed. Yes, there are a lot of funny moments but there are a lot of dark, twisted, disturbing moments too and the end result can be too weird and unsettling for some people (a lot of women don't seem to like "Pain & Gain". Like...at all). And according to CinemaScore the first audiences gave it a weak C+. Which is not really surprising for such an unusual movie. If you want the usual feel-good flick, "Iron Man 3" is waiting for you. Don't expect to feel good after "Pain & Gain" though. Kudos to Bay and Co. for making a movie that's far from your typical "crowd pleaser". He was right when he said that these types of movies don't get made these days. Unfortunately.


    Speaking for myself, I really enjoyed "Pain & Gain" and not because I'm a fan of Michael Bay and I'm expected to say that it's good. No, I enjoyed it because it's really, really well made and last but not least it's a truly original movie. In a sea of sequels, remakes and comic book movies it's really good to see something like "Pain & Gain".

    Have to say though the movie is not as violent as I expected...maybe with the exception of the "tire on face" scene. That scene got me good. You literally see the tire rolling on poor Tony Shalhoub's face. Very, very effective moment.

    Overall, the entire movie is very effective and I'll definitely see it again in the theater.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    In a weird, weird way the movie (and everything around it) reminds me of "Fight Cub" and the way it was received in 1999. One thing's for sure though - just like "Fight Club" "Pain & Gain" is not for everybody. If you go in expecting to see a quirky comedy you will be disappointed. Yes, there are a lot of funny moments but there are a lot of dark, twisted, disturbing moments too and the end result can be too weird and unsettling for some people (a lot of women don't seem to like "Pain & Gain". Like...at all). And according to CinemaScore the first audiences gave it a weak C+. Which is not really surprising for such an unusual movie. If you want the usual feel-good flick, "Iron Man 3" is waiting for you. Don't expect to feel good after "Pain & Gain" though. Kudos to Bay and Co. for making a movie that's far from your typical "crowd pleaser". He was right when he said that these types of movies don't get made these days. Unfortunately.


    Speaking for myself, I really enjoyed "Pain & Gain" and not because I'm a fan of Michael Bay and I'm expected to say that it's good. No, I enjoyed it because it's really, really well made and last but not least it's a truly original movie. In a sea of sequels, remakes and comic book movies it's really good to see something like "Pain & Gain".

    Have to say though the movie is not as violent as I expected...maybe with the exception of the "tire on face" scene. That scene got me good. You literally see the tire rolling on poor Tony Shalhoub's face. Very, very effective moment.

    Overall, the entire movie is very effective and I'll definitely see it again in the theater.
    You took the words out of my mouth regarding comparisons to Fight Club. Like Fight Club, it's not just a satire of the absurdity of criminal action, but a satire of American culture in general. Also like Fight Club, P&G is bound to offend people who don't get that its a satire. Any good satire pushes the audience past what they're comfortable watching. So yes, kudos to Bay for making an unsettling and thought-provoking film. And also kudos to Johnson for his courage in playing such an unflattering and politically incorrect character at a time when he's a major star.

    What impressed me was how Bay managed the very complicated tone of the film, ranging from black comedy to to pathos. It's definitely a film for grown ups, and he handles to two murder scenes with appropriate weight, very differently than the deaths in all his previous films. Knowing Bay's filmography actually makes the picture even more effective. Shots like the the gang walking away from the exploding car in slow motion during their botched murder attempt of Kershaw is in a way subversive of the very action sequences Bay has directed. The same with all the cars, women, houses, etc. It's like he's showing the dark side of all those trappings after having previously shown the glamour. Even the last scene, in which Daniel walks into the prison yard and sees an American flag through barbed wire, is like an inversion of the usual final triumphant walk in his films.

    In fact, now that we've seen what Bay can do when he's unbound, I feel a little regret that he's going to have to work within the shackles of PG-13 again.

    Two other quick thoughts: LOL at the booties reference, something that true fans will catch. And I'm pretty sure that the final scene of Ed Harris and his wife is a subtle homage to Fargo-they could have easily used the same line: "There's more to life than a little bit of money". Bay has said many times that Fargo is one of his favorite movies.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    I finally got around to watching it and I gotta say it's a wild ride. It pretty unique, we get u good glimpse inside the characters' minds it is exiting, it has twist and turns, there are are moments where you want to turn your eyes away from the screen and yet you can't stop watching. It's everything a R rated film should be. And it is a hard R.

    The soundtrack is captivating, it's just the sort of pulsating and overwhelming score I love. The performances are great, the casting is perfect. Everything that people have been saying about Dwayne Johnson is true and it must have been a real moment of epiphany to see him in this kind of role. The guys banter is fun and can be funny even in most dire situations. But there is so much nuance as you see their real underlying aggression come out. I must say I believe its also one of Mark Wahlberg's best performances. They say that Tony Shaloub's character is an asshole but can't keep from admiring the guy after all that he went through. Got to give respect to Bar Paly too, because it's hard to play stupid especially that stupid.

    People say is was a bit too long and I must say that that scene in the Bahamas was drawn out for long. It was already past the film's climax, it's should have been over a lot quicker. Everything else that is in the movie should be there. I'm happy they put in the courtroom scenes.


    There's one thing that I want to call bullshit and it's something that's a bit of pet peeve of mine. When you have Lugo trying to subdue Frank Griga and all of the sudden an accident happens to "kill" him by chance. You have your charter who has to kill someone and eventually does, but in the same you don't want him to be a ruthless killer so he doesn't really willingly kill him: an accident happens and our guy is a killer now but is innocent in the same time. They spend all this time unsuccesfully trying to kill this one guy and then unintentionally kill somebody just like that. And I know in the article they don't intend to kill Griga before getting stealing his stuff but certainly he didn't die from a dumbell falling on his head out of the blue. And Krisztina Furton didn't die from the tranquilizers, she had her neck very intentionally snapped. Anyway I'm concerned with authenticity. It just feels like lazy writing.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by dnn View Post
    Shots like the the gang walking away from the exploding car in slow motion during their botched murder attempt of Kershaw is in a way subversive of the very action sequences Bay has directed.

    I don't know if you realize but that is the very first time Michael has used that shot in any of his movies.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Regressor View Post
    I don't know if you realize but that is the very first time Michael has used that shot in any of his movies.
    He does have a slo-mo shot of Rosie Huntington-Whiteley with her back to exploding cars in DOTM. My point is that the shot was definitely a wink at the audience.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Finally seen it after the Easter holidays here.
    Michael Bay may be proud of Armageddon, but I'm proud that I'm a Michael Bay fan. I know that most of us here are fans of Bay and I'm not trying to kiss anyone's ass but this movie is just pure art. Everything in it - the story, the characters, the music, the humor and most of all for me this is the best directing work that Michael did in his career. He always keeps you in the center of the action and always make the scene to look interesting never bores you for one little bit.
    I was only slightly disappointed by The Rock. He was indeed great but from all the internet buzz I was expecting even more extraordinary role from him. For me Mark Wahlberg stole the show.
    Can't wait to see if Michael will approach TF4 differently after this breath of fresh air. It could turn out to be a pretty unique movie as well.

    P.S. I know that in some countries P&G opens in August but I'm surprised that from 2000 members we have only several opinions her for this movie.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albershide View Post
    P.S. I know that in some countries P&G opens in August but I'm surprised that from 2000 members we have only several opinions her for this movie.


    Hmm, good point there.

    I guess it goes to show that most people here are still more interested in Bay's bigger movies. If this was a huge movie like "Armageddon" the discussion here would've been up and running (it's also safe to assume that right now people are more interested in "Iron Man 3" and the other big summer movies). Not to mention that most "new" members are here not because of Bay as a director but because of "Transformers" and that "Turtles" movie. Truth is there are very, very few active "real" Bay fans left here.

    It's a shame really, because "Pain & Gain" is probably the best representation of Bay as filmmaker. There are no visual effects to hide behind, no spectacular action sequences, no military stuff. And he did a damn good job without relying on these things. I'll also say that the movie deserves much more attention than "Transformers 4". But I guess that's the curse of being a big-budget director. Look at Emmerich - in 2011 he did a political/historical thriller called "Anonymous". Smaller movie that no one really talked about. It flopped. No one really talks about Nolan's smaller movies too...it's all about the depressed guy in the batsuit.

    Same with Bay. The good news is that unlike Emmerich's movie "Pain & Gain" is doing well at the box office. But unfortunately it's not very popular on S4TE.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member sora's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albershide View Post
    P.S. I know that in some countries P&G opens in August but I'm surprised that from 2000 members we have only several opinions her for this movie.
    To me, it's just that the movie has yet to be scheduled for release in my country. Spoilers galore, still I read every thread to moderate, though.

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Doing good on the "True Crime" chart. #7. On its way to beat "Goodfellas":

    - http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/...=truecrime.htm
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Great movie , thanks Mr Bay.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    "These are all lies; ugly, horrendous lies formulated out of sheer ignorance and lack of respect for both the film and indeed those affected in real life."


    What's this about? Right here, a brand new article from a UK writer who's not happy with the US critics. Pretty interesting stuff - http://www.filmoria.co.uk/2013/07/pa...lly-misjudged/
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Senior Member Aliafne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    As Pain and Gain finally hits Europe a little bit behind, but we can finally see and reflect on it as well
    I have to say I went in the cinema with mixed feelings, obviously I was highly excited and curious but I was also a little doubtful because I was worried about one or two things that could be hard to overcome because this is not a genre Bay directs every day.
    P&G is one of those films where everything is at place working together for a perfect film with many layers. I felt like I was literally in a gym, I had to change into so many different positions in the cinema seat I think I have muscle strains today. One minute its just entertaining and fun, the other minute it gets you thinking, then it keeps you constantly on the edge of your nerves, you laugh, you are scared, there are simple scenes with the adrenalin rush of any good Bay type car chase scenes, then bamm your back again into something funny, and then once in a while there are those seconds like tiny stings that shock you. Shock you with the horror of reality. When you realise this really happened, these were real people. And these moments are not those moments where something is funny and its too funny to be real like the barbecue scene, it is moments like the end of the court scene. Art has the power to keep you thinking and art evokes catharsis. For this film so far…. good balance of dramaturgy: check. Thoughts and catharsis: check. Good writing: Check.
    Now the style. One of the big differentiating lines between average quality movies and good films is the correspondance of picture and content. And Pain and Gain is one of those films that elevate this level within the film. Bay has his own very specific visual style which so far went perfectly well together with the content of light entertainment and action movies. And now it worked perfectly well with a satire. All the twisted angles were in balance with the twistedness of the story, and how the characters mindset and worldview was out of balance - brilliant. All the low angle heroic shots of obviously non-heroic angles - brilliant. Every angle, every staging, every decision of very precise and at their place. I think I will just go again and again shot by shot through this movie once I have the DVD.
    And here is something weird, that strangely I haven't read anywhere…. There is some sort of parallel between Pain and Gain and Goodfellas and Casino. Now talking about style, narration in a movie is usually a sin. Narration usually comes in where everything else failed to serve its purpose. Film is told through camera and pictures not through voice. Thats reading out loud. Every time when the script or the directing or the acting is to weak to tell a story they put in narrating because they need one more extra hand to explain something, to spell it out. Take away the thinking from the viewer. Now there are very rare occasions when narrating works amazing on screen. The master of this is Scorsese. So first few minutes I heard the narrating I was seriously worried. And then something happened….. it worked in P G. Now to anybody who attacks in the future Bay for anything. Somebody who can pull off a narrated movie with such grace is not a bad director. Period. Also the freezing out of the picture the way it was used in P&G are a nice bow to the above mentioned movies. One last thing….. which is brilliant again. He uses the dolly (and omg at the conducting of those round dolly shots) as Scorsese mastered the use of steadicam in Goodfellas. So directing part 1: check.
    Now acting…… acting is as it should be. No mistakes, everything is honest, at its place, kudos for the improv parts. Opposite to the prejudice, Bay is and has been good with directing actors. Duh for you haters. Okey except .... in ...... (ooofffftopiiiic…..caugh ). Now there is a very good reason why everybody talk about Dwayne Johnson. Seriously this is a miracle. Dwyne is not an actor. No offence. Still Bay saw something (obviously he would have been good for the part just as he was to start with), twisted it, gave the level of support and space that was needed…. and the performance that ended up on the screen was without a doubt good acting. So. Acting: check. Directing part2: check.
    My admiration for Steve Jablonsky just grows with this movie. Oh and the end titel was also very well made.
    This film will need many many rematches. I can emphasise longer how well made it is. I am just really happy it is out, and I had the chance to see it.

    "Michael Bay is made out of rainbow powder"

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Everything that has to be said about this movie has been said already in this thread. This is one of Michael Bays finest.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Lol finally, finally watched this movie and uh? I think i liked it.

    Probably Michael Bay's most serious movie to date. Liked intercut voice overs, introductions, brutality on display, and the morbid humor.

    Other dirty sense of humor was it's downfall for me and the lead was just okay and didn't shine or at least as much as the Rock's character.

    Loved the story, liked most characters, score was nice, and actors were pretty good.

    I'd give it a 6 or 7/10.

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    Default Re: Official Pain & Gain discussion thread [ spoilers]

    Loved it! darkly funny, violent and kicks ass.

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