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Thread: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    No action in the first hour of DOTM? What about Laserbeak?

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    Senior Member Xsubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Just saw Avengers. Wow, what a great and entertaining film! The movie was very character focused and had a good combination of action sequences. Although the story is very basic, the the character development between the main characters really pull you into the movie. If the next Transformers movies can achieve a bit more character focus on the robots, then i personally think that's another +1 for the film.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsubs View Post
    The movie was very character focused and had a good combination of action sequences. Although the story is very basic, the the character development between the main characters really pull you into the movie.

    There's a huge difference between "character development" and "character interaction". I also saw "The Avengers" and I agree that it's a fun movie, but I would never call it a character driven/focused piece. Because it's not. Movies like "Transformers", "Pirates" and "The Avengers" rely mainly on character interactions. I'm sure we all know what that means and it would be a mistake to confuse it with "character development". Truth is, "The Avengers" is a classic example of a big-budget summer action movie - you go in and you have some fun with the interactions between the characters and you enjoy the humor and the action sequences.

    "Character development" is the last thing you'll find in that movie. I can give you concrete examples and scenes, but I don't want to spoil the movie for those who haven't seen it.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    By the way Adam Goodman's statement actually revealed another casting news - no Rosie Huntington-Whiteley in TF4 either. (No Sam = No Carly)

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    There's a huge difference between "character development" and "character interaction". I also saw "The Avengers" and I agree that it's a fun movie, but I would never call it a character driven/focused piece. Because it's not. Movies like "Transformers", "Pirates" and "The Avengers" rely mainly on character interactions. I'm sure we all know what that means and it would be a mistake to confuse it with "character development". Truth is, "The Avengers" is a classic example of a big-budget summer action movie - you go in and you have some fun with the interactions between the characters and you enjoy the humor and the action sequences.

    "Character development" is the last thing you'll find in that movie. I can give you concrete examples and scenes, but I don't want to spoil the movie for those who haven't seen it.
    Smooth explanation.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhem View Post
    There's a huge difference between "character development" and "character interaction". I also saw "The Avengers" and I agree that it's a fun movie, but I would never call it a character driven/focused piece. Because it's not. Movies like "Transformers", "Pirates" and "The Avengers" rely mainly on character interactions. I'm sure we all know what that means and it would be a mistake to confuse it with "character development". Truth is, "The Avengers" is a classic example of a big-budget summer action movie - you go in and you have some fun with the interactions between the characters and you enjoy the humor and the action sequences.

    "Character development" is the last thing you'll find in that movie. I can give you concrete examples and scenes, but I don't want to spoil the movie for those who haven't seen it.
    You made some very good points. I agree that those scenes (Without trying to spoil anything to people who haven't seen it) were more along the lines of "character interaction" rather than "character development", but its these little 'interactions' in these scenes that help advance the characters relationships, and as the film progresses, you get to see the characters coming together, therefore they 'develop' in a way. And its because of these interactions that we get to understand more of the character.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Alas, to Bayhem at page 1 and in general:

    TF2007 had a cool & good story.
    RotF got jobbered all over the place, it had nice elements but overall it lacked
    DoTM had a decent to good story build up, some minor glitches but nothing to bad storywise.

    Now, the main issue many have is that, in RotF the most, followed by DOTM, there were to many American Army vs Generic Decepticons moments in the movie. People want more Autobots vs Decepticon; and not generic bots but named 'Cons.

    And yes, TF, Avengers ain't movies for character development.

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    Senior Member Bayhem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon View Post
    Now, the main issue many have is that, in RotF the most, followed by DOTM, there were to many American Army vs Generic Decepticons moments in the movie.

    I see your point but.......people want bigger, more epic battles, right?

    Well, to have these battles you have to include a lot of other generic robots and the humans should act against them (after all, we're on Earth). You can't achieve that grand "end of the world epic-ness" with only 4 or 5 main robots fighting and Shia hiding all the time. You have to make it really massive in order to satisfy the audience. Also, the military is an important part of that franchise and I'm glad that Bay relies on them. Makes the movies more realistic and effective. And speaking for myself, I will never watch a "Transformers" movie if there are only robots on the screen and the humans are secondary characters. After all, I am human and I can connect better with the human characters. And that's why Spielberg was interested in making/producing "Transformers" - it's the human story, a story about a boy and his car. And everything is seen through the eyes of Sam Witwicky and the people around him. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. ( yes, I'm aware that the franchise is called "Transformers", but we have to keep in mind that it's made by humans for humans ).

    By the way, when you think about it you'll realize that the "generic bad guys" have always been an important part of the action genre. And to have a great action scene, you have to have a lot of generic characters - robots, humans, aliens, doesn't matter. You see them in pretty much every big-budget action movie.
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Am I the only one who thinks that the TF movies had some decent to great character development on Optimus Prime and Sam? Atleast far superior to what most other Blockbuster movies give us today.

    Oh, and I never really got the "generic bad guy" complaint either. Its part of every action movie. The bigger problem would be then that some of the main robots do not get enough attention.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    I'm going to say that there was character development in Revenge of the Fallen. More or less at the same level as the first TF, and a lot more than in Dark of the Moon. In ROTF we have one character developed, Sam (same as in the first TF), while in DOTM there's none. All the story revolves around him, his journey and his evolution, and follows pretty well the classic "hero's journey" scheme. Doesn't follow the 17 classic stages, and doesn't keep the exact order, but it does follow most of them.

    I think that, despite the writers' strike, ROTF was better written than DOTM.

    But I must be also the only one who thinks ROTF is on par with Transformers (or maybe even better - if it wasn't so clearly unfinished...), and better than DOTM.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexsm View Post
    I'm going to say that there was character development in Revenge of the Fallen. More or less at the same level as the first TF, and a lot more than in Dark of the Moon. In ROTF we have one character developed, Sam (same as in the first TF), while in DOTM there's none. All the story revolves around him, his journey and his evolution, and follows pretty well the classic "hero's journey" scheme. Doesn't follow the 17 classic stages, and doesn't keep the exact order, but it does follow most of them.
    RotF definately had character development, but it was development for the wrong kinds of characters. All the bots that got the longest of dialogue were the most silliest (Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire, and Wheelie). If you think back on it, they all took up quite a bit of speakin. they definately got their time to shine. While the humor of the bots is far more tolerable than that of the humans, it kinda sucks that out of all the bots, RotF focused all its time on the comedy club members of cybertron. Another incredibly silly character that got waaaay more development than he ever deserved was Leo, who was the worst thing about the entire movie.... all i can say is that i wanted him to die. But yea, sam got alot of development, more than i hoped for, so im glad his time is done.
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexsm View Post
    But I must be also the only one who thinks ROTF is on par with Transformers...

    Well, clearly you're not the only one:

    "According to Paramount’s exit polls, 91 percent of the audience thought the sequel ("Revenge of the Fallen") was as good as or better than the first “Transformers”.
    "You know why the departures and the arrivals at LAX are on separate levels? So the 30,000 heartbreakers that come here each month don't notice the 30,000 that are leaving with their hearts broken."

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexsm View Post
    I think that, despite the writers' strike, ROTF was better written than DOTM.

    But I must be also the only one who thinks ROTF is on par with Transformers (or maybe even better - if it wasn't so clearly unfinished...), and better than DOTM.
    I got your back !, Me2 , in the end credits of DOTM i felt unsatisfied,i am still in love with the awesome roller-coaster movie ride that is called transformers revenge of the fallen !
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by almostthethird15 View Post
    RotF definately had character development, but it was development for the wrong kinds of characters. All the bots that got the longest of dialogue were the most silliest (Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire, and Wheelie). If you think back on it, they all took up quite a bit of speakin. they definately got their time to shine. While the humor of the bots is far more tolerable than that of the humans, it kinda sucks that out of all the bots, RotF focused all its time on the comedy club members of cybertron. Another incredibly silly character that got waaaay more development than he ever deserved was Leo, who was the worst thing about the entire movie.... all i can say is that i wanted him to die. But yea, sam got alot of development, more than i hoped for, so im glad his time is done.
    Well, I don't agree. The development went for the right character: Sam. And he is the only developed one. Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire and Wheelie don't have any kind of development. Their characters have no progression. The same goes for Optimus, Bumblebee, Mikaela or anyone else. Because ROTF, while having lots of characters, is really a one-man-show. The whole story is about Sam's inner journey from from "little man" to "hero", from "normal" to "special" and from "whiny" to "strong".

    I'll say that there was only one bot more or less developed in the whole saga: Megatron. His evolution from almighty evil, to weaker enemy, to tired and defeated general is nice. Should have more screen time in the last one. Optimus also changed, but his change wasn't smooth and wasn't well explained on screen. Maybe if the last movie had a bigger focus in the Autobots-go-home plot (as seemed in the early shooting) his "I'm staying no matter what you say and save the day at any cost no matter what you say" attitude would work better. But I guess this has something to do with the removal of the twins. I bet that part of the plot was their part.

    Also, I liked more the focus on comic relief and naive attitude of ROTF over the gritty and harsh feeling of DOTM. And I think the dramatic moments of ROTF (Optimus death, Matrix vanishes and vision of the primes) work better than any dramatic moment in DOTM. IMO ROTF flaws are details (sure, lots of details, but details at the end) and DOTM flaws are deeper. Still don't understand why all the critics were so harsh with that movie and said nonsense like "it doesn't have a real plot" or "the story is incomprehensible" (crap, is really easy).

    I still remember Bay saying in this forum that Spielberg thought ROTF was best Bay movie ever after seeing the first cut. Don't know how different that cut was from the final cut, because of all the movie production difficulties (I bet there were less bad jokes and a few more sequences matching things), but I can understand why he could say that. ROTF is very "Full Metal Amblin", but for teens instead of kids.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexsm View Post
    Well, I don't agree. The development went for the right character: Sam. And he is the only developed one. Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire and Wheelie don't have any kind of development. Their characters have no progression. The same goes for Optimus, Bumblebee, Mikaela or anyone else. Because ROTF, while having lots of characters, is really a one-man-show. The whole story is about Sam's inner journey from from "little man" to "hero", from "normal" to "special" and from "whiny" to "strong".

    I'll say that there was only one bot more or less developed in the whole saga: Megatron. His evolution from almighty evil, to weaker enemy, to tired and defeated general is nice. Should have more screen time in the last one. Optimus also changed, but his change wasn't smooth and wasn't well explained on screen. Maybe if the last movie had a bigger focus in the Autobots-go-home plot (as seemed in the early shooting) his "I'm staying no matter what you say and save the day at any cost no matter what you say" attitude would work better. But I guess this has something to do with the removal of the twins. I bet that part of the plot was their part.

    Also, I liked more the focus on comic relief and naive attitude of ROTF over the gritty and harsh feeling of DOTM. And I think the dramatic moments of ROTF (Optimus death, Matrix vanishes and vision of the primes) work better than any dramatic moment in DOTM. IMO ROTF flaws are details (sure, lots of details, but details at the end) and DOTM flaws are deeper. Still don't understand why all the critics were so harsh with that movie and said nonsense like "it doesn't have a real plot" or "the story is incomprehensible" (crap, is really easy).

    I still remember Bay saying in this forum that Spielberg thought ROTF was best Bay movie ever after seeing the first cut. Don't know how different that cut was from the final cut, because of all the movie production difficulties (I bet there were less bad jokes and a few more sequences matching things), but I can understand why he could say that. ROTF is very "Full Metal Amblin", but for teens instead of kids.
    I disagree, Optimus Prime has the most character development along with Sam. Its just rather subtle and not so in your face, but definately there.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Please change a writer

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    ya..you were totally right,Mr horizon,there were too many American Army vs Generic Decepticons moments in DOTM. People want more Autobots vs Decepticon; and not generic bots but named 'Cons and the poor decepticons aircraft, I rather think they use the budget for some decepticons character etc like Thundercracker and Motormaster.Be honest DOTM just got 6 decepticons show up and there are Sentinel,Starcream,Megatron,Shockwave,Soundwave & Dweller only..(Other like Brawl,Barricade etc not count cause they didn't even show up more than 20 seconds)..Mr Bay, please show around 10 True Decepticons in the cartooon series and not protoform soldier, bring us all the character development and make them awesome and invincible...if can bring in combiner(not like Devastator crap in ROTF), every fans wants to see that, I can guarantee..

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew62 View Post
    Tf4 could be humans make a space shuttle using tf technology to find other planets with life now finding the planet its unicron disguised with many of the cool unseen decepticons ,relizing from video footage they are building an army, optimus and the other bots search the galaxy for other autobots to kill all the other guys. Now bring in the rest of the wreckers dinobots and make 1.5 billion $ because of all the awesome action
    Got my attention & AMEN to that, anythings possible with good imagination! I'd humbly suggest Michael Bay, Ehren Kruger, & whoever else directly involved with development of TF4 put their age differences aside and actually play with the toys while acting out the script; sometimes the simplest interactions between characters can make all the difference (I know this may be an uber stretch on their egos however). I'd also wish they'd consider using MoCap or something when acting out their scenes. I can visualize them trying several scenarios on the fly using the actual voice actors as a stand in for each bot, then ILM/Digital Domain could replace the MoCap actor/actress with the rendered bot. Hmmmm.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by saberrider View Post
    Please change a writer

    ^^^This^^^
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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by saberrider View Post
    Please change a writer
    Agree +1. I want more character interaction between the robots. Let us understand the robot characters a little more. Give them depth.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    I like the avengers more cause it made sense. In tf first they came to the earth for the allspark then coincedently there was a big machine built under the pyramids with the primes buried with the matrix. Then in dotm it was planned from the beginning for megatron to meet with sentinal how could this happen if he was in ice for thousands of years according to tf1. Like make up ur dam mind already!

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew62 View Post
    I like the avengers more cause it made sense. In tf first they came to the earth for the allspark then coincedently there was a big machine built under the pyramids with the primes buried with the matrix. Then in dotm it was planned from the beginning for megatron to meet with sentinal how could this happen if he was in ice for thousands of years according to tf1. Like make up ur dam mind already!
    We'll see how the plot devices play out in the Avengers sequels.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    I'm glad that Kruger is back for Transformers 4 - it'll give some consistency in terms of 'tone' or 'feel', even if the movie is meant to give a 'different perspective'. I think he did well enough with DotM.

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    Default Re: Shia LaBeouf Out of TF4. Ehren Kruger is Writing.

    The main problem I found in DOTM is "we were expecting too much, due to not much information but clues everywhere" I hope we will have more info this time... like in ROTF when just list of names like "Devastator" were revealed and art work everywhere, I remember having a Devastator as my desktop background (then DOTM came like a top secret project... I didn't like that part as a fan).

    Aside that, DOTM is one of the best movies ever done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metsuke
    The main problem I found in DOTM is "we were expecting too much, due to not much information but clues everywhere" I hope we will have more info this time... like in ROTF when just list of names like "Devastator" were revealed and art work everywhere, I remember having a Devastator as my desktop background (then DOTM came like a top secret project... I didn't like that part as a fan).

    Aside that, DOTM is one of the best movies ever done.
    I have to disagree with you on that, TF2 gave away to much but still had enough scenes to surprise me and entertain me.
    The Dark Knight also didn't give away to much therefor didn't know what to expect and turned out to be a great movie and movie experience for everyone.

    I think this is à personal issue for everyone, some people start to fantasize to much and create a to beautiful picture in their heads.. I really don't try to imagine anything or create any homes for certain things to happen in the movie cause i know when i do that the movie is gonna suck for me in a certain way.
    When i Transform i release rockets with nanobot-viruses that destroys you from within... the fuel inside you will turn into acid, metal will melt instantly...
    I'm a decepticon and my name is _____ All Hail Megatron!

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