Ninja turtles

[Ed Fuego]

Ok, so I am a fan of your work. But, this time I think you are off base.

And since I have seen a lot of people on the thread who don't seem to get why we fans of tmnt are so upset about the alien thing, let me try to help you understand.

Imagine Bay was working on a football movie. All the football fans would be excited because he does great work. Then, they found out that in HIS movie, the ball would be round. Because, there were so many things that could be improved about the movie with a round ball instead of an oval ball. Well, no matter how awesome his plot, effects, and marketing were, football fans would be pissed off because: that isn't a football.

Turning mutants into aliens is just as bad. It would also be akin to turning superman into a mutant. Its just wrong and way to annoying to overlook. I pray to god this is a marketing stunt.

Football is a real thing. It exists.

Ninja Turtles, as far as I know, are not real. And never were.

So a different standard exists for the acceptability of interpretation.

And, by the way, for some people, the shape of a real football IS round. And some of those people ARE pissed off when football is played with an oval ball. But their thing does not cease to exist because the new thing comes into being.

Ed Fuego

[Don Young]

Football is a real thing. It exists.

Ninja Turtles, as far as I know, are not real. And never were.

So a different standard exists for the acceptability of interpretation.

And, by the way, for some people, the shape of a real football IS round. And some of those people ARE pissed off when football is played with an oval ball. But their thing does not cease to exist because the new thing comes into being.

Ed Fuego

That football is soccer. You should be able to grasp the point though. The fact that they are mutants is as important of a detail as the american football being oval. It isn't something that can just be changed for the sake of plot. Can ljyou imagine Rudy remade with a round football? And even though mutant turrtles don't actually exist, the show does. I loved it growing up and this is way too much of a distraction to actually watch it. This isn't some unimportant and annoying part of the plot. It is what makes the turtles, turtles. It saddens me that people believe we should just watch whatever they want to make. I assume this is being remade inpart because it was popular, why not just keep them mutants and make we who actually like the show happy? The people who never watched it wouldn't know the difference anyway. I am sure bay and the writing team are good enough to make a great movie without them becoming alien turtles.

[nelson]

That football is soccer. You should be able to grasp the point though. The fact that they are mutants is as important of a detail as the american football being oval. It isn't something that can just be changed for the sake of plot. Can ljyou imagine Rudy remade with a round football? And even though mutant turrtles don't actually exist, the show does. I loved it growing up and this is way too much of a distraction to actually watch it. This isn't some unimportant and annoying part of the plot. It is what makes the turtles, turtles. It saddens me that people believe we should just watch whatever they want to make. I assume this is being remade inpart because it was popular, why not just keep them mutants and make we who actually like the show happy? The people who never watched it wouldn't know the difference anyway. I am sure bay and the writing team are good enough to make a great movie without them becoming alien turtles.

This is exactly what Megatron fans said when they found out he was not going to be a gun.

Round 2.

[Sweetre15]

Based on this stuff in this interview, I wont let my guard down entirely but MAYBE I can lighten up just a tad: http://collider.com/jonathan-liebesm...erview/154499/

If this is the case then Bay needs to be more clear with his statements lol

[nelson]

Based on this stuff in this interview, I wont let my guard down entirely but MAYBE I can lighten up just a tad: http://collider.com/jonathan-liebesm...erview/154499/

If this is the case then Bay needs to be more clear with his statements lol

Or maybe fans shouldn't jump the gun without knowing what they're talking about first?

[Ed Fuego]

That football is soccer. You should be able to grasp the point though. The fact that they are mutants is as important of a detail as the american football being oval. It isn't something that can just be changed for the sake of plot. Can ljyou imagine Rudy remade with a round football? And even though mutant turrtles don't actually exist, the show does. I loved it growing up and this is way too much of a distraction to actually watch it. This isn't some unimportant and annoying part of the plot. It is what makes the turtles, turtles. It saddens me that people believe we should just watch whatever they want to make. I assume this is being remade inpart because it was popular, why not just keep them mutants and make we who actually like the show happy? The people who never watched it wouldn't know the difference anyway. I am sure bay and the writing team are good enough to make a great movie without them becoming alien turtles.

I'm not actually arguing against your conclusion (yet). I'm just pointing out that I don't think your comparison is as obviously appropriate as you made it out to be.

I have to admit, I've never been that particular about maintaining the "sanctity" of the storylines from my youth (or even now). I'm not bothered by most changes. In some cases I have preferences (I think Han Solo shot first, I think James Bond should smoke, I don't believe Donald Duck should not wear pants), but in many cases I don't really care. I certainly understand that many people have very strong preferences, much stronger than mine. I just what frustrates me is the attitude that many have that because they are the "true" fans, their opinion counts more, or taking it further, is the only opinion that counts. The problem with that is that new ideas, new creativity, new ways of thinking about something are stunted if all you are trying to do is please the "true" fans. And one of the hallmarks of comic books characters, super heros, mythical beings, etc. is that sometimes, people just say "Fuck it!" and completely change how everyone thought about those characters. Sometimes, admittedly, that fails miserably. But sometimes it makes for something totally different and totally cool and dare I say, better. And perhaps more importantly, it challenges the conventional thinking of the fans. The fans say they hate it, but quite honestly I think it is a critical characteristic of fandom that the sanctity of "their" stories are challenged.

The cartoons/stories of my youth reflected the reality of that time. But we are not in that time now, and I have no problem with the stories reflecting the reality of this time. Think about this: The origin of the TMNT involves a radioactive ooze. That was 1987. What happened in 1986? Chernobyl. Radioactivity was engrained in our mind. Hell, in 1990, Captain Planet was created, which is a perfect example of art reflectling reality. UPDATE: Shit, I think my dates were off; looks like the first TMNT character was 1984. Hmm... that blows a hole in that particular argument.)

The stories and characters reflected the reality of the time. So why, now, can't we maintain some aspects of the characters, but re-invent them to reflect the reality of today? I'm not sure that a radioactive ooze has the same impact that it did in 1987.

I mean seriously, are the TMNT going to use phrases like "tubular", "radical", and "dude", or can we bring their vernacular up to at least this century?

Ed Fuego

[Sweetre15]

Or maybe fans shouldn't jump the gun without knowing what they're talking about first?

Well I already knew about the T.C.R.I but his statement had no ambiguity to it regarding the "alien race" thing so, If he would have made an effort to clarify this, it wouldn't be such an issue. Unless he did it on purpose then I say "Well played" if that's the case.

[boudie13]

I'm not actually arguing against your conclusion (yet). I'm just pointing out that I don't think your comparison is as obviously appropriate as you made it out to be.

I have to admit, I've never been that particular about maintaining the "sanctity" of the storylines from my youth (or even now). I'm not bothered by most changes. In some cases I have preferences (I think Han Solo shot first, I think James Bond should smoke, I don't believe Donald Duck should not wear pants), but in many cases I don't really care. I certainly understand that many people have very strong preferences, much stronger than mine. I just what frustrates me is the attitude that many have that because they are the "true" fans, their opinion counts more, or taking it further, is the only opinion that counts. The problem with that is that new ideas, new creativity, new ways of thinking about something are stunted if all you are trying to do is please the "true" fans. And one of the hallmarks of comic books characters, super heros, mythical beings, etc. is that sometimes, people just say "Fuck it!" and completely change how everyone thought about those characters. Sometimes, admittedly, that fails miserably. But sometimes it makes for something totally different and totally cool and dare I say, better. And perhaps more importantly, it challenges the conventional thinking of the fans. The fans say they hate it, but quite honestly I think it is a critical characteristic of fandom that the sanctity of "their" stories are challenged.

The cartoons/stories of my youth reflected the reality of that time. But we are not in that time now, and I have no problem with the stories reflecting the reality of this time. Think about this: The origin of the TMNT involves a radioactive ooze. That was 1987. What happened in 1986? Chernobyl. Radioactivity was engrained in our mind. Hell, in 1990, Captain Planet was created, which is a perfect example of art reflectling reality. UPDATE: Shit, I think my dates were off; looks like the first TMNT character was 1984. Hmm... that blows a hole in that particular argument.)

The stories and characters reflected the reality of the time. So why, now, can't we maintain some aspects of the characters, but re-invent them to reflect the reality of today? I'm not sure that a radioactive ooze has the same impact that it did in 1987.

I mean seriously, are the TMNT going to use phrases like "tubular", "radical", and "dude", or can we bring their vernacular up to at least this century?

Ed Fuego

very well said while I have fond memories of the turtles as they were in the 80s I find it acceptable to change with the times. people complaining about it when we still have while to go is like judging a book by its cover...give it time

[Trailbreaker]

I'm sorry, but I seriously need to get this off my chest...





That is all.

[Lbrosfilm]

Sorry that it's taken this long for me to tune into this discussion, but, I'm honestly really curious/interested to see what's done with this movie. (I was into to TMNT before I got hooked on Transformers, so the Turtles will always something I cherish.)

[Buttercup]

Well I already knew about the T.C.R.I but his statement had no ambiguity to it regarding the "alien race" thing so, If he would have made an effort to clarify this, it wouldn't be such an issue. Unless he did it on purpose then I say "Well played" if that's the case.

Agree totally. However, the Ooze coming from an alien race doesn't, in my eyes, excuse/allow just changing them to being complete aliens from another planet. That'd be akin to change the Transformers into robots built on Earth by humans and using the "alien" cube to bring them to life. Liebesman's comments don't 100% confirm or deny either scenario, so I'm going to watch the developments cautiously. Having people, even creators, say that something is "staying close to the mythos" or talk about how excited they are or the fans will be doesn't give me the warm fuzzies like they used to. I heard the same statements about the American Godzilla, Catwoman, Superman Returns, etc.

[Sevic]

When will the hardcore fans understand that these movies are not made for them? When will hardcore fans understand that they are very little compared to the audience as a whole?

If not for those "hardcore" fans supporting the franchises and making it successful in the first place these movies would not even exist. While the movies aren't made just for them they are an integral and expected primary target audience for the them as they are the ones who would most likely pay to see them, non-fans would be far more hesitant. So it is understandable that they would be upset over changes to what they percieve as essential plotlines.

Did the hardcore fans asked themselves the question what would have happened if Michael made the 2007 TF movie exactly as they wanted closely following the source material? I can tell you what would have happened. There wouldn't have been more TF movies because they would have failed at the box office and all sequels depends on $$$$$. Michael makes his movies to be enjoyed by the general public.

And how exactly do you know they would have failed if they followed the source material more closely? You don't, for all we know they could have been just as, if not more, successful. You are just making a baseless assertion.

He resurrected the whole franchise - the toys, the comics, new successful TV shows. This is all because of Bay. This is all because he made his movies for the general public and not the hardcore fans. I can see that this will happen with TMNT as well. This is the best news that the fans could want.

Oh please. While the TF movies may have made the franchise more successul, which wasn't only because of just Bay I might add, it didn't resurrect it as they had on-going series (comics, toys and animated TV shows) before and during the production of the 2007 TF movie.

As for this new TMNT movie resurrecting the franchise, well during the course of 2001 to 2009 it had a 7-season long animated series which is a testament to its success. Before that series came to a close Mirage sold the TMNT rights to Nickelodeon who announced a new series for this year, this new movie isn't due out until the end of next year. So no this new movie won't resurrect the franchise, it may however make it more successful and draw in new fans.

Or maybe fans shouldn't jump the gun without knowing what they're talking about first?

Us fans know that aliens were involved in the turtles' origins, however the wording that Bay chose and the way he said it suggests that the turtles themselves would be aliens. The issue some of us fans have with it is it is a change to a fundamental part of the mythos that defines the turtles' characters, change it and you change an essential part that makes up their characters.

So you can't blame them for talking about it, that's the entire reason why information on the film had been released in the first place to get people interested and talking. I'm sure Bay intentionally implied they would be aliens to stir up a bigger reaction than it otherwise would have, I very much doubt (and hope) they actually will be though but I have other fears for this movie based on Bay's typical movie style.

[Bot of Badassness]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=56826

Liebesman on TMNT

On The "Alien" Aspect Of The Reboot...

“Look, it’s so funny—if everyone was such a die-hard fan, they would know that the TCRI canisters where the ooze comes from. That is alien ooze. Now I’m not saying what Michael said is exactly what the movie is, because we’re sitting in a room now figuring everything out. So we don’t know, but we are like Michael said: we’re expanding it, and the expansion will be true to the mythology. I promise you: fans will love it.”

On Working With Kevin Eastman...

“Whatever mythology we’re building on or expanding is coming from that guy, Kevin Eastman’s head, who created the Turtles in the first place. And so everything will tie in with the mythology; fans will be extremely excited with what we’re coming up with. A lot of it is stuff he’s wanted to do for a long time, but just hasn’t had the opportunity because now we have the budget and things on this film to expand it in the right way. And so, I’m happy that everyone is extremely passionate, and they will not be disappointed. It’s all coming from the best possible place for this franchise.”

On Whether Or Not The Turtles Will Be CGI'd...

“All I’ll say is that I love how they did [The Rise of the Planet of the Apes]. That was exceptional.”

On How Much Action Is In The Movie...

“We’re definitely into the action, but for me what’s more important than that is that it’s a story about brotherhood and friendship and responsibility. Right now, I’m with the characters because those are what attracted me to the movie. They’re the best characters I’ll have had a chance to deal with.”

[MrX]

This is exactly what Megatron fans said when they found out he was not going to be a gun.

Round 2.

: rolYep, it's 2006 all over again. It's all ready started. I'm seeing "Michael Bay raped my childhood yet again" videos on Youtube.

Geez, I'm gone for a couple of weeks and now Mr Bay's doing Ninja Turtles?

[Dan]

This is exactly what Megatron fans said when they found out he was not going to be a gun.

Round 2.

That's not a fair comparison, Megatron was still a transforming robot from outer space.

[nelson]

That's not a fair comparison, Megatron was still a transforming robot from outer space.

Of course it is. They'll still be turtles who fight like ninjas, and eat pizza.

You're splitting hairs on the origin.

[starscream1017]

last time i went away- Bay announced TF4, this time i went away- TMNT was announced! i was in Singapore (Transformers Ride, Cybertron Con) and i see Michael Bay trending on twitter! all "Bay raped my childhood, he shat on my childhood tweets" lol..
as a kid i was a TMNT fan, i liked it more than i like transformers.. I trust Michael! im not saying that to kiss ass, but i have seen what he has done with Transformers! he took a dead franchise and made it bigger than ever! & he will do the same with TMNT!

dudes is seriously crazy.. they need to calm the fuck down! they need to remember that Michael is not directing, he is producing.. and the team working on this involves Kevin Eastman! one of the original creators.. so whats there to worry about? especially when the original creators are involved in the process? change is good! you can't expect a movie to be the same as a cartoon or as a old movie.. things change accept it.. ive seen fans call Kevin Eastman a sellout! lol.. they need to stop worrying, go out get laid or something.. pay for it if they have to.. but quit hating on Bay.. wait till you see a trailer or something before you start hating!

checking twitter right now, did a search for 'Michael Bay' and ppl are still talking about raped childhoods!

[TIMtationX]

I wonder how many people registered here just for the sole reason of complaining about this.

[starscream1017]

I wonder how many people registered here just for the sole reason of complaining about this.

looks like a lot.. they should shut registration down.. lol i like this place better when its a closed community.. hahaha

[Sweetre15]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=56826

Liebesman on TMNT

On The "Alien" Aspect Of The Reboot...

“Look, it’s so funny—if everyone was such a die-hard fan, they would know that the TCRI canisters where the ooze comes from. That is alien ooze. Now I’m not saying what Michael said is exactly what the movie is, because we’re sitting in a room now figuring everything out. So we don’t know, but we are like Michael said: we’re expanding it, and the expansion will be true to the mythology. I promise you: fans will love it.”

On Working With Kevin Eastman...

“Whatever mythology we’re building on or expanding is coming from that guy, Kevin Eastman’s head, who created the Turtles in the first place. And so everything will tie in with the mythology; fans will be extremely excited with what we’re coming up with. A lot of it is stuff he’s wanted to do for a long time, but just hasn’t had the opportunity because now we have the budget and things on this film to expand it in the right way. And so, I’m happy that everyone is extremely passionate, and they will not be disappointed. It’s all coming from the best possible place for this franchise.”

On Whether Or Not The Turtles Will Be CGI'd...

“All I’ll say is that I love how they did [The Rise of the Planet of the Apes]. That was exceptional.”

On How Much Action Is In The Movie...

“We’re definitely into the action, but for me what’s more important than that is that it’s a story about brotherhood and friendship and responsibility. Right now, I’m with the characters because those are what attracted me to the movie. They’re the best characters I’ll have had a chance to deal with.”

My favorite part of that is the aspect of Brotherhood with the Turtles being focused on,now if they add the unexplored "outcast" facet to their angle this can really be interesting because none of the movies have touched on that

[Dan]

Or maybe fans shouldn't jump the gun without knowing what they're talking about first?

Well this blog said that Bay said the radioactive waste accident was changed to an alien planet.
http://blog.viacom.com/2012/03/scene...odeon-upfront/

Of course it is. They'll still be turtles who fight like ninjas, and eat pizza.

You're splitting hairs on the origin.

The word mutant is in the title. It would be like making a Transformers film where the robots didn't transform. The Turtles eating pizza was not part of the origin, it was concept introduced in the 87 cartoon and phased out in the mid 90's. No cartoon or movie has used it since, but the mutant aspect has always been part of the franchise.

[Sweetre15]

Well this blog said that Bay said the radioactive waste accident was changed to an alien planet.
http://blog.viacom.com/2012/03/scene...odeon-upfront/

For some reason, it just sounds like they were saying that strictly based off of Bay's statement..

[Buttercup]

last time i went away- Bay announced TF4, this time i went away- TMNT was announced! i was in Singapore (Transformers Ride, Cybertron Con) and i see Michael Bay trending on twitter! all "Bay raped my childhood, he shat on my childhood tweets" lol..
as a kid i was a TMNT fan, i liked it more than i like transformers.. I trust Michael! im not saying that to kiss ass, but i have seen what he has done with Transformers! he took a dead franchise and made it bigger than ever! & he will do the same with TMNT!

dudes is seriously crazy.. they need to calm the fuck down! they need to remember that Michael is not directing, he is producing.. and the team working on this involves Kevin Eastman! one of the original creators.. so whats there to worry about? especially when the original creators are involved in the process? change is good! you can't expect a movie to be the same as a cartoon or as a old movie.. things change accept it.. ive seen fans call Kevin Eastman a sellout! lol.. they need to stop worrying, go out get laid or something.. pay for it if they have to.. but quit hating on Bay.. wait till you see a trailer or something before you start hating!

checking twitter right now, did a search for 'Michael Bay' and ppl are still talking about raped childhoods!

: rol Good Lord. I'm surprised you could remove your lips from Bay's ass long enough to type that post. As someone already stated, Transformers was NOT dead prior to the movies, though admittedly it wasn't at the height of it's popularity anymore. But that's a far cry from resurrecting a dead franchise. You're exaggerating as much as the fanboys you're complaining about. Everyone understands that different teams bring different visions to the subject. What exists in one medium (comics/cartoons) doesn't always translate well to movies, thus some changes are necessary/acceptable. Needless changes are, well....needless.

looks like a lot.. they should shut registration down.. lol i like this place better when its a closed community.. hahaha

Oh yes. That'd be great. Just close down registration and ban everyone who doesn't share your love of Bay. Then you can just all have a cuddle party, hug each other, and collectively kiss Bay's ass. It's like a little community of Bay-Fanboys.

[sora]

Over the past several years with Transformers, he has listened to fan's voices. Ninja Turtles may turn out good, too.

------

Box office doesn't always tell the story with regards to how much people like a movie, but $2.7 billion for the TF franchise? C'mon. Admittedly, $1.2 billion might have been courtesy of Sora.

Nice to feel like a billionaire.

[Albershide]

WOW! What have we got here? Several bitching fan boys who have just joined the boards and already started insulting the regular members here. Way to go .... :borat

Show some respect to the place where you've been accepted to and get...

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