Updated: DOTM Blu-ray 3D Color/brightness

So why was it when I skimmed through various scenes on the 3D disc tonight that I had by far the worst picture I've ever seen from a 3D blu-ray? This is a movie that I consider having the best 3D I had seen to date (better than Avatar), and I typically find the blu-ray 3D to be better than theatre 3D. To be fair, the issue with the picture isn't really the 3D aspect, but the terrible color. It is extremely over saturated and just looks very poor. The 2D disc that was released earlier did not look anything like this (neither did it look like this in the theatre).

I haven't checked the special features yet, but right now I'm very disappointed. Anyone else seeing the same thing?

u should check ur tv settings

Something on you're end buddy, Have seen it around 4 times now on my 3D TV and its easily the best looking out of all my 3D blu rays, In fact I think its flawless, I am very pleased w/ waiting to buy this movie in 3D. I have also seen it on around three other 3D TV's and they all looked identical which just means jaw-dropping, lol, Colors look fantastic as well.

It will be your tv ssettings
if you are using Panasonic tv set it to game mode rather then cinema as will make the colors more vibrant

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Originally Posted by jasonsportscards

It will be your tv ssettings
if you are using Panasonic tv set it to game mode rather then cinema as will make the colors more vibrant

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My TV settings are fine. Everything else looks great. 2D blu-rays, 3D blu-rays, the 2D Dark of the Moon, Satellite, it's all good. Only this one single disc looks like this. And I've tried it in multiple 3D blu-ray players as well.

Try a different disc?

I've checked around at various forums and it appears I'm not the only one who is noticing this. I can try swapping it at the store for another disc, but I'm not too confident that will work.

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Originally Posted by ChldsPlay

I've checked around at various forums and it appears I'm not the only one who is noticing this. I can try swapping it at the store for another disc, but I'm not too confident that will work.

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You must have a defective disc. Mine looks and sounds perfect.

I was watching the 3d version and color or brightness was weird, but then I checked on some forums and people are having the same issue.

Here is a link to the AVSforums(if this link is not allowed you can remove it)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21589350


My equipment is a JVC rs40 3d Calibrated to D65. The screenshots show the difference anyways.

There's already a thread with this issue:

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum...-be-done-right

Some people say that this is the best 3D Blu-ray released so far and some people have big troubles. Maybe there are some faulty batch of discs.

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Originally Posted by space2001

I was watching the 3d version and color or brightness was weird, but then I checked on some forums and people are having the same issue.

Here is a link to the AVSforums(if this link is not allowed you can remove it)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21589350


My equipment is a JVC rs40 3d Calibrated to D65. The screenshots show the difference anyways.

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AVS is filled with extreme videophiles, so they're going to notice the tiniest of details. Is it a little dimmer than the 2D version? Probably, but I didn't notice when I first watched my disc. (although I'll probably notice it now the next time I watch, thanks).

Taken from that AVS thread. >>> "Weird thing I noticed: the 3D movie gets dimmer the longer it goes on. I exported the maximum luma values of every frame into a CSV and graphed it using Veusz (which was the only program I could find that would plot a graph from a data set of 220k values)." <<<< I have no idea what any of this means, and neither do the 98% of people who bought this disc. I don't think it's as big a problem as some are making it.

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Originally Posted by TIMtationX

AVS is filled with extreme videophiles, so they're going to notice the tiniest of details. Is it a little dimmer than the 2D version? Probably, but I didn't notice when I first watched my disc. (although I'll probably notice it now the next time I watch, thanks).

Taken from that AVS thread. >>> "Weird thing I noticed: the 3D movie gets dimmer the longer it goes on. I exported the maximum luma values of every frame into a CSV and graphed it using Veusz (which was the only program I could find that would plot a graph from a data set of 220k values)." <<<< I have no idea what any of this means, and neither do the 98% of people who bought this disc. I don't think it's as big a problem as some are making it.

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^THIS.

Those people are crazy.

look at the images that where posted direct from the disc

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6...hemoon39bd.png

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1...moon39bd3d.png

The reason some 3D TV color on some systems might not look perfect? Well because there is no standards in 3D. It sounds stupid doesn't it. When we color transfer we spend weeks on a single format. Six weeks on the feature, then weeks additional on DVD, then weeks more on 3D. Every single shot might have brightness windows color moves high light adds. My colors on almost every one of my films have had almost perfect color space scores. I'm the guy who did the first - film to digital - digital transfer release on a movie - Bad Boys 2. I know color and telecine equipment better then almost any director out there. But when I started doing my 3D transfer with the most talented color telecine expert in the world, my buddy Stephan. He told me 3D is fucked. There is no standard to the equipment it is the wild west right now. So if it looks bad it's your product. We aimed color space for the most the equipment that has the biggest market share. In our room it looked perfect. So I'm sorry but it's your equipment. Tell the business to standardize and it will all look perfect in the future. Sorry.

Michael

Well, there you have it.

Yep, that's why I'm still sticking with my 2D LCD TV. The 3D home systems still have a long way to go. :)

Thanks for clearing things up Mr. Bay. I guess Sony is one of those company's then because I love the way it looks on my TV in 3D, could not be happier. Hope you guys out there w/ the problems figure it out because this movie blows all the other ones out of the water.

Thanks for educating us on this issue and for helping these guys out Michael! :)

Yeah i love Sony too they always have excellent products. :)

Has the retail 3D disc been viewed by Michael Bay himself? Seems like the 3D getting progressively darker shouldn't be happening especially if it's brighter then 2D in the beginning to compensate for 3D glasses dimming.

I like my 2d, and plus my mom says 3d hurts her eyes

Can Mr Bay and/or Paramount please have a look at the 3D retail Blu-ray disc? There is a big brightness drop that happens at around the 40-50 minute mark which doesn't seem like what would or should of happened in the grading process. Something may have gone wrong in the encoding process at Paramount.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21607965
The link compares the brightness of whites captured direct from disc earlier in the movie to scenes after the 40-50 minute mark. I would nice to have this exact issue addressed. As you can see in the link other 2D vs 3D comparisons have been done and none of them have these problems which isn't a result from the grading. The recent Harry Potter 3D graded by Peter Doyle doesn't have this problem either if anything the brightness is turned up consistently.

wonder which TV Michael has.. or does he have one of those in house cinemas? anyone know?

A question to the people here with 3D TVs:
Did you have similar problems with other 3D movies? Is it normal that some movies look good on some TVs and some don't?

I think you guys are getting things mixed up.

If you compare the 2d blu-ray to the 3d blu-ray(exact screenshots off the disc not pictures off a TV.) There is a brightness drop around the 40-50 minute mark as noted on AVSforum.

I understand why people would think it is the 3d television, but the fact that its direct screenshots off the disc shows the difference.

I think its funny how people are saying its the blu ray when 50/50 are saying the opposite. Obviously its not the blu ray, everyone I know is content with the picture quality through out the entire movie, there is no drop in brightness for me or over saturated colors. Mr. Bay specifically stated that there is no standards for different 3D TV's, this is the same with Black levels and color ratio's for regular HDTV's its the individual company that sets its black and color ratios not through the standards of another HDTV company. if anyone here can back me up, its a standard set by the company not the different products as a whole. The same thing is happening here with 3DTV's.

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Originally Posted by BrunnerD

I think its funny how people are saying its the blu ray when 50/50 are saying the opposite. Obviously its not the blu ray, everyone I know is content with the picture quality through out the entire movie, there is no drop in brightness for me or over saturated colors. Mr. Bay specifically stated that there is no standards for different 3D TV's, this is the same with Black levels and color ratio's for regular HDTV's its the individual company that sets its black and color ratios not through the standards of another HDTV company. if anyone here can back me up, its a standard set by the company not the different products as a whole. The same thing is happening here with 3DTV's.

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Mr Bay and others are correct that there isn't a standard to calibrating 3D displays yet but you are incorrect in a way that there is no standards for 2D displays either. The entire film and television industry does follow a standard set by the SMPTE which makes sure the image from production to post-production to projection all output the same image that the Director, DoP and Colour Grader wanted. All the displays used in the industry are calibrated to have the same gamma, contrast, colour temperature (D65), etc. And all film prints, film projectors and digital projectors follow the same standards. Now the TV settings out of the box do not display all these factors correctly as their all designed to be the "prettiest" on the showroom floor to catch peoples eyes so they usually have white that are too blue, contrast and colour saturation jacked up through the roof. So to get consumer displays to follow the standards of the industry you need to get an ISF calibration if you can afford it. With this calibration the ISF technician would set your display to have the right contrast and colour with test patterns and also have the colour temperature of the whites be correct by bringing it as close as possible to D65 using a device scientifically reading the light coming out of the screen.

Now that that aspect is out of the way I'm going to move onto why you can't really rely on the opinion on the 3D Blu-ray from "most" of the forum members because they just don't know what to look for. I just wanted to point out once again that the issue is with the encode on the retail disc because the brightness levels were measure scientifically directly from disc comparing several shots throughout the movie including explosion and lens flare heavy shots what would be the brightest and they showed a definite loss in brightness after the 42 minute mark. Just go back to the links I posted especially the second one that has the data to the right of the screenshots showing the scientifically measure brightness levels. And to address the issue of using anyones opinions on Blu-rays to judge whether something is correct or wrong because there are cases where the home cinema/blu-ray enthusiast catch things that the general public doesn't notice or know how to look for. "The Dark Knight" on Blu-ray is probably one of the most recommended Blu-rays for most people for "reference quality" and "Blu-ray to show off to friends". Yet the enthusiast home cinema owners and Blu-ray collectors know their is a massive error with the transfer on the retail disc. The contrast is overcooked, the 35mm material has poorly applied digital noise reduction and artificial sharpening aka "edge enhancement". This is backed up Torsten Kaiser who is a film restorationist. And here is what he had to say about "The Dark Knight" on Blu-ray

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TK: The Dark Knight Blu-ray transfer has certainly raised a lot of questions and debate. Have you been involved in those discussions?

KB: Some. I certainly have my opinions on the transfer, and many of them are negative.

TK: On the web, a lot of people have been saying, "oh, it's way too contrast-y" and so on and so forth. And that is correct. Others have said there is a lot of edge enhancement present. And, yes, it is, mainly because of the changes in contrast; specifically changes made to whites and in the lower grayscale. Many of the edge halos or pixel breakups, as they are being called, that appear are present due to contrast changes, not necessarily by way of what people call edge enhancement. On The Dark Knight Blu-ray transfer, the biggest error – by far the biggest error – its producers committed was the complete change of the film's original color timing. The Dark Knight was not copied with an optical printer. The original material – I held it in my hands – it was gorgeous. It was absolutely gorgeous. It was… I fell flat off my chair. (Laughs) The colors are so different compared to those that appear in the Blu-ray transfer. I've seen the Blu-ray once, and I've never looked at it again. It's very unfortunate too because it makes the Blu-ray image exactly what it is. And this is something that is hugely important. It also unfortunately happened, albeit in a different way, to North By Northwest. When I saw North by Northwest, I talked to Robert Harris about it – specifically about the opening being de-grained to a level that you begin to see line twitter. It's a side effect from a de-graining tool which causes the layers to wobble a little. It's a weird thing that should have never made it past the quality control stage. They should have known exactly what caused it and should have changed it.

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And here is a comment from Robert Harris another film restorationist (that worked on The Godfather trilogy restoration) on the LOTR FOTR Blu-ray issue that was a pretty big discussion on Blu-rays forums

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I have just spent another hour, beginning at 6am, with the new FotR / EE / BD.
Just as an aside, having worked with both silent and sound projects, black & white, tinted (both stock as well as dye), tinted and toned, Eastman Color, three-strip, as well as both printed to dye transfer Technicolor, I'm reasonably attuned to color, timing, densities, etc.

And after continuously reading about the color problems on FotR, I have concluded that I do, in fact, have a defective set. I'll be requesting a back-up copy from WB, and will reconsider my earlier comments.

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Sources:
https://www.smpte.org/about
http://www.imagingscience.com/
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6885
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/31...in-blu-ray/270

I also want to point out that my 3DTV has been ISF calibrated for 2D and 3D separately. While there isn't a standard for 3D calibration yet I got the calibrator to calibrate the screen to produce the same 2D standard image through the 3D glasses while the TV was in 3D mode with some 3D test patterns.

2D Blu-ray__________3D Blu-ray__________
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/958...oon34bd.th.pnghttp://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8...n34bd3d.th.png

The claim that they baked the dark, yellow hues into the picture to counter the tint of 3D glasses is strange. Of all the mass market 3D eyewear I've worn, they all make the image darker and slightly yellow. Baking more darkness and yellow into the Blu-ray isn't going to counter the tint of the 3D glasses- it's only going to intensify the tint two-fold.

Besides, these color alterations were best left alone. We 3DTV owners run our sets with a variety of content and know what color and brightness adjustments need to be done to neutralize the tinting effects. As long as content makers leave the color timing true to the 2D version, it will look right on our sets when we activate our 3D color profiles.

That's true and the passive glasses with the RealD cinema system add a warmer yellow tint to the image so I would of expected the grading for the cinema to push the cooler colours and not warmer colours. My Sony active shutter 3D glasses add a yellow and green tint to the 3D image so my ISF calibrator had the TV push more blue colours from the TV and took out some of the greens to get the whites to match up with 2D D65 colour temperature.