Michael Bay, why do you appose Paramount's HD DVD decision?

[nt300]

Just out of curiosity, I think you should respect Paramount's decision for going HD DVD. Right now HD DVD players are at a price point which will enable mass adoption.

I believe Sony shouldn't be using a game console (PS3) to push the Blu-Ray format. Anybody buying a HD DVD SAL player and the XBOX 360 HD DVD add-on is soely buying it for Hi Def movie watching, not to play games. This is why HD DVD has a much larger attach rate then Blu-Ray.

There is no difference between HD DVD & Blu-Ray in terms of picture quality & audio quality. Several movies prove this over & over again, with Blu-Ray using 50GB discs and HD DVD using 30GB discs. The capacity argument is a non-issue and means nothing at all. If you have the extra capacity, great, if you do not, there is no big deal.

Am I being bias? Well, I believe facts speak for themselves. Just read my signature.

I used to have a $700 Samsung Blu-Ray player which later on I found out that this profile 1.0 player will not be completely compatible with future releases, until I heard about all this profile stuff, so I quickly sold it off on eBay and purchased a PS3 instead, which supposedly will be profile 2.0 compatible.

And please Michael Bay, support Hi Definition as a whole, and respect HD DVD for it’s advantages over Blu-Ray. It's O.K. to like Blu-Ray right now, but please stop with the complaining. I respect you as a director & as a person, but the complaining just does not look good.

[Darkzen]

Just out of curiosity, could you please explain to me how attach rate works. I'm quite baffled. I mean HD-DVD has a much higher attach rate than BD, but I can't figure out for the life of me how that works. I mean HD-DVD has a lot more players sold compared to BD(according to them) and a lot less movies sold than BD(according Nielsen numbers) yet it has a higher attach rate. More players divided by less movies sold keeps equaling less attach rate than less players and more movies sold. I mean, I know I didn't do too good in math when I was younger, but this one totally evades me.

[nt300]

Currently & for all of 2007, for every HD DVD stand alone player sold, HD DVD also sold 4 or more HD DVD movies.
So 1 HD DVD stand alone to 4+ HD DVD movies.
So in reality HD DVD stand alone player sales equal about 750,000+ right now.
So, take 750,000 HD DVD SAL x 4+ HD DVD's = 3 million HD DVD movie sales. Right now it's too early to take 750,000 HD DVD SAL into consideration because more than half are said to be Christmas gifts. So, I predict in 2008, HD DVD will reclaim its original lead in movie sales while dramatically increasing HD DVD SAL sales also.

I am format neutral but I really hate the fact that the Blu-Ray Disc Association feeds false info to people which really don't understand the facts.

I also don’t like the fact that more than 75% of all Blu-Ray disc sales are all from Playstation 3 owners which most do not own HDTV’s.

So, right now what is sustaining the Blu-Ray format only?
- Cheap Shot BOGO sales (BOGO = Buy One, Get One Free) & 75%+ of all Blu-Ray players are only PS3’s. Should be changed to “PS3-Ray” which in turn gives Sony’s Blu-Ray an attach rate of less then 0.6 to 1.

So before HD DVD sold so many Stand Alone players, (Approx: June/July/Aug etc)
HD DVD has a 4:1 attach rate (4 Movies to 1 SAL)
Blu-Ray has a 0.6:1 attach rate (0.6 Movies to 1 SAL/PS3)

[Bumblebee1983]

Currently & for all of 2007, for every HD DVD stand alone player sold, HD DVD also sold 4 or more HD DVD movies.
So 1 HD DVD stand alone to 4+ HD DVD movies.
So in reality HD DVD stand alone player sales equal about 750,000+ right now.
So, take 750,000 HD DVD SAL x 4+ HD DVD's = 3 million HD DVD movie sales. Right now it's too early to take 750,000 HD DVD SAL into consideration because more than half are said to be Christmas gifts. So, I predict in 2008, HD DVD will reclaim its original lead in movie sales while dramatically increasing HD DVD SAL sales also.

I am format neutral but I really hate the fact that the Blu-Ray Disc Association feeds false info to people which really don't understand the facts.

I also don’t like the fact that more than 75% of all Blu-Ray disc sales are all from Playstation 3 owners which most do not own HDTV’s.

So, right now what is sustaining the Blu-Ray format only?
- Cheap Shot BOGO sales (BOGO = Buy One, Get One Free) & 75%+ of all Blu-Ray players are only PS3’s. Should be changed to “PS3-Ray” which in turn gives Sony’s Blu-Ray an attach rate of less then 0.6 to 1.

So before HD DVD sold so many Stand Alone players, (Approx: June/July/Aug etc)
HD DVD has a 4:1 attach rate (4 Movies to 1 SAL)
Blu-Ray has a 0.6:1 attach rate (0.6 Movies to 1 SAL/PS3)

The stand alone blu ray players are around $300-$400....whereas the HD DVD players are around $200.

Why buy PS3 just for the blu ray? I don't know of any games to play on the PS3, which is why I don't have one. And it's a bit expensive....:p

[Darkzen]

Currently & for all of 2007, for every HD DVD stand alone player sold, HD DVD also sold 4 or more HD DVD movies.
So 1 HD DVD stand alone to 4+ HD DVD movies.
So in reality HD DVD stand alone player sales equal about 750,000+ right now.
So, take 750,000 HD DVD SAL x 4+ HD DVD's = 3 million HD DVD movie sales. Right now it's too early to take 750,000 HD DVD SAL into consideration because more than half are said to be Christmas gifts. So, I predict in 2008, HD DVD will reclaim its original lead in movie sales while dramatically increasing HD DVD SAL sales also.

I am format neutral but I really hate the fact that the Blu-Ray Disc Association feeds false info to people which really don't understand the facts.

I also don’t like the fact that more than 75% of all Blu-Ray disc sales are all from Playstation 3 owners which most do not own HDTV’s.

So, right now what is sustaining the Blu-Ray format only?
- Cheap Shot BOGO sales (BOGO = Buy One, Get One Free) & 75%+ of all Blu-Ray players are only PS3’s. Should be changed to “PS3-Ray” which in turn gives Sony’s Blu-Ray an attach rate of less then 0.6 to 1.

So before HD DVD sold so many Stand Alone players, (Approx: June/July/Aug etc)
HD DVD has a 4:1 attach rate (4 Movies to 1 SAL)
Blu-Ray has a 0.6:1 attach rate (0.6 Movies to 1 SAL/PS3)

Thanks for your explanation. I'm getting the picture now. HD-DVD has a much higher attach rate because it has less players on the market compared to BD. BD's lower attach rate is due to the PS3 also being a Blu-ray player and therefore, when counting attach rate, it dilutes the number.

So I guess it's fair to say that Blu-ray, though "many of the people owning PS3s don't have an HDTV", have a lot more players in the market thus diluting their attach rate even though they have a greater amount of movies sold. Hope I'm not putting it wrong here.

I guess Blu-ray has to be mad at Sony for diluting their attach rate. I mean, more movies sold, but the numbers don't look good because there are way more players on the market. And the worst part of it is many of those PS3 owners don't have an HDTV... I do wonder why someone without an HDTV would buy Hi-def movies.

One last question, if that's alright. In your original post you mentioned that HD-DVD is at a price point which will enable mass adoption. What I am wondering is, if you count the PS3s as Blu-ray players, then wouldn't that mean that Blu-ray is already ahead in terms of mass adoption? Or you can't really count the PS3s towards mass adoption because PS3s aren't really Blu-ray players? Though, if PS3s aren't counted towards mass adoption, then the attach rate for BD would then spike up.

Argh!!! Wish this war was over, my head is going to explode. So many different standards when talking about how each format is doing. When talking about players sold, PS3s don't count, but when counting attach rate they do. Maybe just count total amount of discs sold, would that be better?

Anyways, thanks for the reply. Was insightful.

[nt300]

I understand your points. You are right if Sony did not include the PS3 toward their attach rates, but the problem with that is Blu-Ray stand alone players top at about 200,000+ in the USA where as HD DVD stand alone players top at about 750,000+.

This fact alone makes Sony include the PS3. The big difference here is when you buy HD DVD, you buy it to watch movies, when you buy the PS3, you are buying it to play games. So, Sony cannot have it both ways, it's either they include the PS3 in their sales with extremely bad attach rates, or they do not include the PS3, but suffer with the low BD stand alone player sales due to high prices & future profile issues.

Anyway, what I mean by Mass Adoption is HD DVD's player prices are at a critical price point which people are willing to buy. (HD DVD Players = $99 to $599+) This alone makes it automatically a potential mass adopting product. We've seen it when Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, Best Buy, Circuit City etc. had that "Pre-Black Friday" sale which in about 1 days time they sold over 90,000 HD DVD stand alone players. Wal-Mart recorded over 40,000 sold in just 1 day. They all underestimated the strength price has on people & Hi Def. So, they didn't really fully stock HD DVD players to begin with.

I predict that HD DVD will hit the 1 million HD DVD stand alone player sales by the end of 2007 IMO. Right now on Amazon.com, all 3rd generation HD DVD players by Toshiba are outselling any & all players. They currently hold the #1, #2 & #3 spots for most best selling.

[Blckshp]

NT,

I'm sorry that I have to disagree with you about whether to include the PS3 as a game machine or a blu-ray player.

I do not own a standalone player, yet I have two PS3's that I bought as Blu-ray player. I owned my first one for six months before I even bought a game for it. I bought the second PS3 as a second blu-ray player in my bedroom that I might play games on but I doubt it. At this point in time, I own over 80 blu-ray movies and only three games. So I guess you could say that my PS3's are primarily movie players and not game machines.

My point is that you cannot discount the PS3's as blu-ray players because they are capable of playing games. There are people out there who have bought it solely for playing games and there are people out there who bought it to play movies on and are not really interested in the games. It is difficult to tell how many have done that. You cannot say that they aren't players because they play games, but then turn around and say that everyone is a player and therefore the attach rate is horrible. And yes, like you said, not everyone who owns a PS3 owns an HDTV at the moment.

Somehow, we need to find an appreciable ratio to estimate the amount of PS3's that are used primarily as a movie player. I watch more movies on my machine than I spend time gaming, easily by 97%. I am not a hardcore gamer by any means. The answer is not black and white, nor is it all or none, or 0 or 100%. It's somewhere in between. I know many people who bought it just as a player and may play a game now and then on it. None of the people who use their PS3's as movie players like being discounted because someone wants their viewpoint to be black and white. The world just doesn't work that way. I've spent my money on the format that I chose, and I would like to be counted.

[C6 Z06]

NT,

I'm sorry that I have to disagree with you about whether to include the PS3 as a game machine or a blu-ray player.

I do not own a standalone player, yet I have two PS3's that I bought as Blu-ray player. I owned my first one for six months before I even bought a game for it. I bought the second PS3 as a second blu-ray player in my bedroom that I might play games on but I doubt it. At this point in time, I own over 80 blu-ray movies and only three games. So I guess you could say that my PS3's are primarily movie players and not game machines.

My point is that you cannot discount the PS3's as blu-ray players because they are capable of playing games. There are people out there who have bought it solely for playing games and there are people out there who bought it to play movies on and are not really interested in the games. It is difficult to tell how many have done that. You cannot say that they aren't players because they play games, but then turn around and say that everyone is a player and therefore the attach rate is horrible. And yes, like you said, not everyone who owns a PS3 owns an HDTV at the moment.

Somehow, we need to find an appreciable ratio to estimate the amount of PS3's that are used primarily as a movie player. I watch more movies on my machine than I spend time gaming, easily by 97%. I am not a hardcore gamer by any means. The answer is not black and white, nor is it all or none, or 0 or 100%. It's somewhere in between. I know many people who bought it just as a player and may play a game now and then on it. None of the people who use their PS3's as movie players like being discounted because someone wants their viewpoint to be black and white. The world just doesn't work that way. I've spent my money on the format that I chose, and I would like to be counted.

I agree. I did the same when I bought a PS3, it was to play Blu-rays with very little gaming.

nt300, why shouldn't Sony use the PS3 to promote Blu. Smart business makes smart money! Your #'s on stand alones are also off by more than half. The stand alone sales are somewhere near 600k for mid December and growing at a fast pace.

[Bumblebee1983]

[C6 Z06]

lol Yes the fuse has been lit. Now put my pussy down! Cat that is.:p:D

[Bumblebee1983]

lol Yes the fuse has been lit. Now put my pussy down! Cat that is.:p:D

RAWR.

*gently puts kitty down*

It's so cute and cuddly though!

[Trigger Mike]

We already have a bunch of large threads on this topic. Let's keep all Bay/HD discussion to those. Besides, this thread is in the wrong forum.

Closed.