Roberto Orci discusses the strike & TF2

[MitP]

http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showthread.php?t=23434

[nelson]

They should get off their asses. While A-listers can aford to hold out for ever, the guys that write your sitcoms 5x a year can't.

Alec Baldwin was and is right (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alec-baldwin/the-buyers-long-term-pla_b_75298.html).


The Buyers' Long Term Plan, and an Idea for the WGA
Posted December 4, 2007 | 02:25 PM (EST)


The entertainment business, movies, TV, music, is divided between buyers and sellers. The sellers are actors, musicians, directors writers and their agents. The buyers are the studios, the networks, the labels. Over the last fifteen years or more, the balance of power has shifted dramatically from the sellers to the buyers. Once, powerful agencies made astronomical deals on behalf of their biggest clients. The rising tide that resulted lifted all boats. Major stars were paid large fees and their supporting castmates made enviable salaries, as well. In the 1990s, that began to change. Today, the biggest stars are still paid huge salaries, but other salaries have dropped significantly. Roles are cast at a fixed price and the producers find the actor who will work at that budgeted amount.

More changes followed. The quote system died. Actors who never read a script without an offer were being told that producers did not want performers passing on their material and, thus, effecting the industry word on the project. Reading without an offer is the way of the world for many now.

Some of the most prominent names in film and television switched sides. The end of the sellers' market meant big name agents became producers, even executives, as the party was ending for many of their clients. Today, most agencies, one could argue, work for the buyers. Agents realize that their ten percent of their clients' income comes from the studios and networks as a cushion shot. It is banked off of their clients, but it comes from the buyers. When I started in this business, agents went to war with the buyers on behalf of their clients over casting and money. Agents still fight for their clients to get a role, but the money discussion is brief. The buyers essentially fax over the deal and the artist says yea or nay.

The strike may go on for a variety of reasons. On one hand, the writers are cursed because they are right on most issues but they are awful negotiators. They got screwed in 1988 and expect the buyers to make up for that, like some kind of reparations. That will never happen. The time for making that situation right was 1988. The studios have a different problem. They are owned by huge, creativity-deadening corporations and operated by lawyers and marketing executives who lord over the worst creative decline I have witnessed in a long time, particularly in films. In television, companies like GE view properties like NBC the way realtors view square footage. GE does not care what is on NBC. So long as the programming is relatively inoffensive, they want to earn as much per square foot as they can. In the current strike, the writers expect the buyers to have a soul. The buyers, who cannot count a real filmmaker or television programmer among them, view a soul as an impediment to business.

The strike should end now. The writers should go back to work. Continue negotiating, but go back to work. The report in yesterday's New York Times about NBC buying blocks of programming from "outside producers" is a view to our future. Just as MOWs were killed off the networks and original movies became the exclusive realm of the cable broadcasters, one can envision a future where more scripted programming moves to cable. Eventually, HBO and Showtime, et al, may become the place to find the bulk of scripted shows. With these people calling the shots, anything is possible.

In the meantime, the writers, and the other sellers as well, have a different idea they can try. I recall when a popular late night talk show host skewered the head of his own network for a prolonged run, right there on his show. On and on it went and, from what I heard, that network head was apoplectic. These people have bigger egos than even the stars themselves, but without any sense of humor. I want the WGA to set up a website and on that website we can all post stories about every no-talent, idiotic, amoral producer and executive we have ever dealt with. Just like they do to us on shows like Extra and sites like TMZ (owned by Warner Brothers.) Set up a website and tell the entire world, via the internet, your own anecdote about some of the witless boobs you have endured in Hollywood and beyond. The strike will end in a week.

[nelson]

http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showthread.php?t=23434

BTW, Bay just indicated to me that Transformers is still on schedule. The movie is still in heavy prep and "will be released JUNE 24th 2009."

[Bumblebee1983]

BTW, Bay just indicated to me that Transformers is still on schedule. The movie is still in heavy prep and "will be released JUNE 24th 2009."

SWEET!!!

Happy birthday to me....happy birthday to me.....happy birthday happy birthday...happy birthday to ME!!

*does happy dance* :D

Thank you Nelson, you made my day a little brighter. :cool:

*slams on brakes*

wait a minute....is this something Bay mentioned about throwing us off? Hmmm.....

[barricade505]

i hope filming occurs partially in New Mexico,I would like to check out the filming process and get some auto graphs on the dash.anyhow, awesome!! i cant wait for the premiere.we'll put on our best black and white tux if ya know whata' mean?!!!:cool:

[Bumblebee1983]

i hope filming occurs partially in New Mexico,I would like to check out the filming process and get some auto graphs on the dash.anyhow, awesome!! i cant wait for the premiere.we'll put on our best black and white tux if ya know whata' mean?!!!:cool:

Just drive Barricade look alike...it might get mixed up and filmed. :D

Hey, one can dream, right?

And who's autograph would you get? I would get Optimus Prime's...heh...heh....*cough cough*

If only....:cool:

[sora]

Thanks for updates, MitP, Nelson.
It'd be nice if Roberto come here to have a little chitchat.

Massive strike... I guess we Japanese can't even imagine it, because we're well known as infamous slave-workers. :D

[Bumblebee1983]

Thanks for updates, MitP, Nelson.
It'd be nice if Roberto come here to have a little chitchat.

Massive strike... I guess we Japanese can't even imagine it, because we're well known as infamous slave-workers. :D

Yes, it would be nice to have Roberto post here. :D

*knocks on screen*

Hello...is this thing on? :(

[bliss81]

Yes, it would be nice to have Roberto post here. :D

*knocks on screen*

Hello...is this thing on? :(



who's this mitP? he knows so much about donmurphy.net?

ya'll welcome to join the drama over there... :) i love it.

[bliss81]

BTW, Bay just indicated to me that Transformers is still on schedule. The movie is still in heavy prep and "will be released JUNE 24th 2009."

really? can you tell him that as one fan (myself) i don't mind for a later release if it means a better sequel? and a better michael bay movie.

[sora]

Hi, bliss, I remember you coming here before. How you been?
donmurphy.net looks tough-guys' hangout to me. Won't they bite a foreign girl? :p

[bliss81]

Hi, bliss, I remember you coming here before. How you been?
donmurphy.net looks tough-guys' hangout to me. Won't they bite a foreign girl? :p


not bad. foreign eh? where you from. well its pretty much a sausage fest over there. so a feminine perspective would be nice. just to warn you though. i'm anti-arcee. would not like to see her in the movie.

don't want to detract from shootfortheedit posters. like i said before, its not like one board is better than the other, i think its different regarding functionality, but most people just use the board for information and getting angry at each other. we're one disfunctional family there. i've said some mean stuff here before, but at least nelson (whom i have no opinion of) was kind enough to let me back in. :)

anyway, orci is a class guy. he apologized to the fans when i don't think he didn't have to but at least it shows that he cares about us. that's what i love about dm.net. Don and Orci are open to fan suggestions and criticism.

[r-type]

ya'll welcome to join the drama over there... :) i love it. Who says some of us don't lurk there already? ;) I'm content being a spectator...

Glad to hear from Roberto, but I can't help but think of the little guy in all of this mess. I hope this ends soon. Lots of non-writing staff paycheck2paycheck people) are losing their jobs.

[barricade505]

i'm sorry,i dont know alot of people.i'm terrible with names.who is don murphy?(don't scream)I kinda wanna find out for myself who are all the people involved with project TF2.if it is still a go.you know like the people who release legitimate news.I would like to keep informed.while i transform.....and terrorize!!!:mad:

[pscoop]

really? can you tell him that as one fan (myself) i don't mind for a later release if it means a better sequel? and a better michael bay movie.I would think, there is a lot of untapped talent in Hollywierd just dying for a chance to be working. We could end up with an amazing script due to the writer's strike.

[bliss81]

i'm sorry,i dont know alot of people.i'm terrible with names.who is don murphy?(don't scream)I kinda wanna find out for myself who are all the people involved with project TF2.if it is still a go.you know like the people who release legitimate news.I would like to keep informed.while i transform.....and terrorize!!!:mad:


www.donmurphy.net
check it out. he's a producer. brought movies such a natural born killers and league of extraordinary men to the big screen.
it was don and tom desanto that went around to the various studios trying to get someone to help them make transformers 1. they eventually got hooked up with speilberg and from there you know how the story ends up. he also set up a internet forum to get fan input (which he stated clearly in several sources)

[bliss81]

Who says some of us don't lurk there already? ;) I'm content being a spectator...

Glad to hear from Roberto, but I can't help but think of the little guy in all of this mess. I hope this ends soon. Lots of non-writing staff paycheck2paycheck people) are losing their jobs.


yeh. there are so many people effected. that's the nature of strikes though.
having said that, many of our minimum pay wages are do to the help of unions and lawyers. so even if your not part of a union, most likely it effects you too in some shape or form.
here's to the little guy for getting paid soon! hopefully.

[sora]

not bad. foreign eh? where you from. well its pretty much a sausage fest over there. so a feminine perspective would be nice. just to warn you though. i'm anti-arcee. would not like to see her in the movie.

don't want to detract from shootfortheedit posters. like i said before, its not like one board is better than the other, i think its different regarding functionality, but most people just use the board for information and getting angry at each other. we're one disfunctional family there. i've said some mean stuff here before, but at least nelson (whom i have no opinion of) was kind enough to let me back in. :)

anyway, orci is a class guy. he apologized to the fans when i don't think he didn't have to but at least it shows that he cares about us. that's what i love about dm.net. Don and Orci are open to fan suggestions and criticism.

It's encouraging to hear. I should improve skillz of joke/sarcasm literacy before join there.
Honestly, with my linguistic capacity, sometimes it's hard to read the real intention in slang and idioms. ;)

Ya, I think Roberto doesn't have to apologize for the strike. He looks a very sincere person.

[Bumblebee1983]

Hi, bliss, I remember you coming here before. How you been?
donmurphy.net looks tough-guys' hangout to me. Won't they bite a foreign girl? :p

I was afraid of that here, but I've discovered that's only when you tap into the technical forums, such as HD DVD vs. blu ray. :p

I should start lurking over at dm.net....:cool:

[Bob Orci]

Yes, it would be nice to have Roberto post here. :D

*knocks on screen*

Hello...is this thing on? :(

Hi...

Can you hear me?

[r-type]

Hi...

Can you hear me?

Welcome to shootfortheedit comandante! :)

[Bob Orci]

Welcome to shootfortheedit comandante! :)

Gracias, amigo.

[fu2kimus_prime]

Welcome Bob....at last I get a chance to thank you for the great work on TFS'. :)

[MitP]

Welcome to shootfortheedit, Mr. Orci.

Watch out for incoming Texas-sized asteroids.

[Bob Orci]

BTW, Bay just indicated to me that Transformers is still on schedule. The movie is still in heavy prep and "will be released JUNE 24th 2009."

How flattering that they they can get the whole movie up and running off of an outline we spent two weeks on without the movie suffering in any way!

Wow!

[Bumblebee1983]

Hi...

Can you hear me?

Umm...Nelson, we need more emoticons here, I'm fresh out in reply to this one. :D

Hi there Bob. Nice to see you posting here. :cool:

I do hear ya nice and clear.

Umm...I'm blank on questions.

Oh, here's one: any progress on negotiations so everyone can get back to work?

[wingzero]

yeh. there are so many people effected. that's the nature of strikes though.
having said that, many of our minimum pay wages are do to the help of unions and lawyers. so even if your not part of a union, most likely it effects you too in some shape or form.
here's to the little guy for getting paid soon! hopefully.


Wouldn't there be less issues if there were no unions and no need to involve any lawyers ?
I mean, what did the unions really achieve for people working in the field like you? Sorry but I fail to see the unions being helpful in any field anywhere in the world. Maybe that was true in early 1900 years but it's no more as far as I can see. I see unions adding more burocracy and issues instead of solving them. The presence of the unions increases employers costs a lot and the unions demand quite some employees money to exist.
And how comes that it seems that no one can work in your field without joining the unions ? I read that networks,studios can't hire people that haven't joined the unions. I don't see that as an achievement but a loss for freedom and basic democracy rules. Am I wrong, perhaps ?

[Bob Orci]

Wouldn't there be less issues if there were no unions and no need to involve any lawyers ?
I mean, what did the unions really achieve for people working in the field like you? Sorry but I fail to see the unions being helpful in any field anywhere in the world. Maybe that was true in early 1900 years but it's no more as far as I can see. I see unions adding more burocracy and issues instead of solving them. The presence of the unions increases employers costs a lot and the unions demand quite some employees money to exist.
And how comes that it seems that no one can work in your field without joining the unions ? I read that networks,studios can't hire people that haven't joined the unions. I don't see that as an achievement but a loss for freedom and basic democracy rules. Am I wrong, perhaps ?

No unions equals more lawyers because there would be no systematic agreed upon rules. Studio could pay you 500 bucks for an idea, make a movie, take your name off -- and then you have to get a lawyer and sue.

There'd be no minimum wage, no credit arbitration (which also prevents 100's of lawsuits). There would be no protection from the abuses of the powerful, except whatever protection each individual could afford in terms of legal representation.

[siwel]

No, that's fairly accurate now. The unions were created in an era when there were no government regs to protect workers, so the workers banded together in unions to protect themselves. It was a very good idea back then. But now, we do have government regs and the whole union system is a relic that only serves to make business grind to a halt on a regular basis.

Did you know the car companies have to keep paying the salaries of their workers who have been laid off because there's no work? In the real world, you get another job. In the union world, you leach off the company, continuing to cripple it so it can never become good enough to compete with the Japanese.

If the writers and actors all scrapped the union system, the TV and movie people could hire anyone they wanted and the artist could negotiate their payment on each project, like every other aspect of business in the free market. The problem with the union system is that it creates these massive long-term contracts that become obsolete within a few years and then everyone gets angry and greedy and the system breaks down until they negotiate a new massive long-term contract. Can't we get away from doing business this way? Please?

[siwel]

Studio could pay you 500 bucks for an idea, make a movie, take your name off.

There'd be no minimum wage, no credit arbitration (which also prevents 100's of lawsuits). There would be no protection from the abuses of the powerful, except whatever protection each individual could afford in terms of legal representation.

They could only get away with paying you 500 bucks for something if you accepted that and signed away the rights. It's why we negotiate and have agents.

Minimum wages are guaranteed by the government. And if the studio isn't willing to offer enough for your idea or script, then you take it to someone else. And you don't need a lawyer, you just need an agent. It would work the same way that it currently works for novelists. Your work is copyrighted the moment you create it. Then you negotiate to sell it to some big evil company to get rich. Screw up the negotiation and you miss out on international film and merchandising. Get it right and you get ridiculously rich. No law suits, no lawyers.

[Bob Orci]

No, that's fairly accurate now. The unions were created in an era when there were no government regs to protect workers, so the workers banded together in unions to protect themselves. It was a very good idea back then. But now, we do have government regs and the whole union system is a relic that only serves to make business grind to a halt on a regular basis.

Did you know the car companies have to keep paying the salaries of their workers who have been laid off because there's no work? In the real world, you get another job. In the union world, you leach off the company, continuing to cripple it so it can never become good enough to compete with the Japanese.

If the writers and actors all scrapped the union system, the TV and movie people could hire anyone they wanted and the artist could negotiate their payment on each project, like every other aspect of business in the free market. The problem with the union system is that it creates these massive long-term contracts that become obsolete within a few years and then everyone gets angry and greedy and the system breaks down until they negotiate a new massive long-term contract. Can't we get away from doing business this way? Please?

Each writer still can negotiate their own price on each project, and the studios can still hire whoever they want on each project.

You're not wrong about some aspects of unions, but it's weirder and more complicated when it comes to intellectual property and creative rights. The function of a union in such a case is not exactly analogous to traditional unions.

[siwel]

But authors don't need unions. Your intellectual property is yours. You negotiate to sell it to the publishing house, and the movie studio, and the toy company, and give your agent ten percent and be happy that you got paid. Why isn't that good enough for staff writers?

[Beej]

No, that's fairly accurate now. The unions were created in an era when there were no government regs to protect workers, so the workers banded together in unions to protect themselves. It was a very good idea back then. But now, we do have government regs and the whole union system is a relic that only serves to make business grind to a halt on a regular basis.

Did you know the car companies have to keep paying the salaries of their workers who have been laid off because there's no work? In the real world, you get another job. In the union world, you leach off the company, continuing to cripple it so it can never become good enough to compete with the Japanese.

If the writers and actors all scrapped the union system, the TV and movie people could hire anyone they wanted and the artist could negotiate their payment on each project, like every other aspect of business in the free market. The problem with the union system is that it creates these massive long-term contracts that become obsolete within a few years and then everyone gets angry and greedy and the system breaks down until they negotiate a new massive long-term contract. Can't we get away from doing business this way? Please?

It's not obsolete, unions are still relevant, just ask any one garment industry. People will always take advantage of others in lesser positions. Laws cannot address the specifics of each industry, as there are too many. Your idea is a nice idea but doesn't work logically.

[Bumblebee1983]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is hot thread #2 in the last week! :D

I'm as confused in this one as I am with the HD/blu ray discussion, but not as confused.

But I'll toss in my two cents when I feel it's worth it...or when it gets heated in here and then I'll bring in my ray of sunshine too!

I understand why the writer's are striking, but it just sucks that it has to come to this. Not only for the fans of films that have yet to be written, but for the writers and their families.

[siwel]

Of course people take advantage of each other. That's how business works. My employer needs my work to get the big bucks and I need a salary if I'm going to bother showing up. We're all in it for ourselves, and if you let the system run, with appropriate government safeguards in place, everyone wins...except for the losers, who usually lose for good reasons, like being lazy.

[Bob Orci]

But authors don't need unions. Your intellectual property is yours. You negotiate to sell it to the publishing house, and the movie studio, and the toy company, and give your agent ten percent and be happy that you got paid. Why isn't that good enough for staff writers?

Say I'm a studio, and I hire you as a staff writer on my new show FRINGE because I want you to write an episode along with a handful of other writers who will be my staff. The studio could argue that since you're coming onto a show that's already been created, what exactly are you bringing to the table unless they let you in? They're not buying your novel. And they could further argue that if you don't like it, there's someone standing in line right behind you willing to do it for 500 dollars.

[siwel]

Did you know that in France they have an Unemployed Actor's Union? Yes, you read that right. It's a union, not for workers, but for the unemployed! And they went on strike! Against whom, you ask? Against the government, naturally. These jobless wonders banded together to demand better unemployment benefits so that they could be more comfortable unemployed people. That is where the union system ends, people: France!

[Bob Orci]

Did you know that in France they have an Unemployed Actor's Union? Yes, you read that right. It's a union, not for workers, but for the unemployed! And they went on strike! Against whom, you ask? Against the government, naturally. These jobless wonders banded together to demand better unemployment benefits so that they could be more comfortable unemployed people. That is where the union system ends, people: France!

wow. We're not THAT bad.

[siwel]

Say I'm a studio, and I hire you as a staff writer on my new show FRINGE because I want you to write an episode along with a handful of other writers who will be my staff.

In that circumstance, you're a worker, like anyone else. You're there to do a job, to make a product: TV scripts. Either you accept the terms of employment or you don't. So maybe you make lousy wages for a few years while you build a great portfolio and then go out and get a better paying job, based on your awesome credentials and references. Like everyone else.

[siwel]

(By the way, I'm really appreciating the opportunity to have this debate with an intelligent and experienced person, Bob!)

[siwel]

Appropriate government safeguards... where are you, Russia?

Everyone doesn't win, and losers are not always lazy. You are painting a picture with very broad strokes. There are many, many details which if you look close, you will see.

Government safeguards...like minimum wages, health inspectors, consumer advocates, and, you know laws. Things Russia doesn't have.

Of course everyone wins. Most of the people in America are employed! Making money! Getting health insurance! The system works. And yes, many times people lose out for simple bad luck. Wars, recessions, divorces, diseases. Lost of things can knock you down. But by and large, this system works.

The countries with the worst unemployment are in Africa, ruled by autocrats. And these countries have natural resources to rival America! That's ridiculous!

[nathan alexander]

Did you know that in France they have an Unemployed Actor's Union? Yes, you read that right. It's a union, not for workers, but for the unemployed! And they went on strike! Against whom, you ask? Against the government, naturally. These jobless wonders banded together to demand better unemployment benefits so that they could be more comfortable unemployed people. That is where the union system ends, people: France!

Oh la... mon ami... pas si vite:eek: France is completely different to America. The film industry in France is very small compared to the United States. They need supporting because there is not enough work for everyone all year round. les intermittent du spectacle are not just actors, they are technicians, and audio/visual people, they work for the TV and theatre. Without them, French cinema dies.

[siwel]

Health insurance? I want to work where you do. :)

Yeah, I know America is seriously lagging the developed world on that one, but we're getting there, slowly but surely.

Do you find it weird that every driver has to have car insurance, and most do, and it's no big deal, even though there's a gajillion car accidents and claims and deaths every year.

But we can't work out a system for health insurance?

[MitP]

(By the way, I'm really appreciating the opportunity to have this debate with an intelligent and experienced person, Bob!)

Teacher's pet. :p

[Bumblebee1983]

Did you know that in France they have an Unemployed Actor's Union? Yes, you read that right. It's a union, not for workers, but for the unemployed! And they went on strike! Against whom, you ask? Against the government, naturally. These jobless wonders banded together to demand better unemployment benefits so that they could be more comfortable unemployed people. That is where the union system ends, people: France!

As Mr. Orci said...wow. My brother is currently studying in France and he couldn't go anywhere for a couple of weeks due to the train workers being on strike.

Of course it affected him more than the writer's strike does here...and I don't know where I'm going with this post...:o I thought I had a point to tie with the subject at hand, but apparently, my brain's fried.

Now I'm going to watch Pirates 3...:cool: because my wireless adapter's on the blink. :mad:

[siwel]

Oh la... mon ami... pas si vite:eek: France is completely different to America. The film industry in France is very small compared to the United States. They need supporting because there is not enough work for everyone all year round. les intermittent du spectacle are not just actors, they are technicians, and audio/visual people, they work for the TV and theatre. Without them, French cinema dies.

Uhm, if there's isn't work all year round, then you get another job. Most American actors and writers also have "normal" jobs for a long time before they can live off their art, if ever. That's life. Get with it, Frenchy!

[Bumblebee1983]

(By the way, I'm really appreciating the opportunity to have this debate with an intelligent and experienced person, Bob!)

It's nice to read a thread with intellilgent people posting in it. :p

Also, there's not as much techno garble going on here, so I feel safer in posting. :)

[siwel]

Also, there's not as much techno garble going on here, so I feel safer in posting. :)

The gyroscopic relays in the intermittent power junctions of the flux capacitor's ablative armor were clearly asymmetrical in frame 3478-B!!

[Bumblebee1983]

The gyroscopic relays in the intermittent power junctions of the flux capacitor's ablative armor were clearly asymmetrical in frame 3478-B!!

*slaps swivel*

I was enjoying this thread because it didn't make my head hurt! :mad:

I'm just kidding. Are those Star Trek references by the by? I know definitely not Star Wars....or it's completely made up! :p

[Bob Orci]

In that circumstance, you're a worker, like anyone else. You're there to do a job, to make a product: TV scripts. Either you accept the terms of employment or you don't. So maybe you make lousy wages for a few years while you build a great portfolio and then go out and get a better paying job, based on your awesome credentials and references. Like everyone else.

And there-in lies the disagreement. Every script is not a carbon copy of the pilot, like an assembly line of a car. There is quantifiably unique creative content in each episode of a series, regardless of the initial episode. That is why episodes are being sold individually on the internet. And some sell better than others.

Also, unlike a car, there is no additional cost to selling episodes on the net. It costs just as much to make the first Cadillac as it does to make the second one. But in TV, or even a movie, once the episode is made, it can be resold INFINITELY at no additional cost to the studio.

What people forget is that the STUDIOS also get paid for doing nothing once the movie or show is made. And all they did is front the cash. A studio is like a little bank, but instead of tellers and loan officers, they have executives. And they lend money to people like us and Bay to make our movies and shows, and all they ask for in returns is an interest rate of 99.99 percent on all future earnings of your creation!

[nathan alexander]

Uhm, if there's isn't work all year round, then you get another job. Most American actors and writers also have "normal" jobs for a long time before they can live off their art, if ever. That's life. Get with it, Frenchy!

Life in France is not like America... In France, you study one specific subject at University, and you must stick to that profession for your entire career. There is no reconversion possible. The American Liberal system would not work in France. Sarkozy is making a mistake. The SNCF strike because he attacks their basic salary, and the same goes for all the other professional workers in France... C'est ainsi que ça se passe en France:(

[siwel]

Teacher's pet. :p

Hey, I liked the TF movie, I'll kiss ass if I want to. I liked Alias and Xena and Hercules. And I'm looking forward to Star Trek too.

But if this strike puts even a single hair out of place on South Park, Battlestar Galactica, House, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Heroes, Scrubs (although it's not as good as it used to be), or Robot Chicken, there will be hell to pay.

[Bumblebee1983]

And there-in lies the disagreement. Every script is not a carbon copy of the pilot, like an assembly line of a car. There is quantifiably unique creative content in each episode of a series, regardless of the initial episode. That is why episodes are being sold individually on the internet. And some sell better than others.

Also, unlike a car, there is no additional cost to selling episodes on the net. It costs just as much to make the first Cadillac as it does to make the second one. But in TV, or even a movie, once the episode is made, it can be resold INFINITELY at no additional cost to the studio.

What people forget is that the STUDIOS also get paid for doing nothing once the movie or show is made. And all they did is front the cash. A studio is like a little bank, but instead of tellers and loan officers, they have executives. And they lend money to people like us and Bay to make our movies and shows, and all they ask for in returns is an interest rate of 99.99 percent on all future earnings of your creation!


Ahh, okay, things are becoming clearer in the fog.

No wonder you have to have unions!

[siwel]

Life in France is not like America... In France, you study one specific subject at University, and you must stick to that profession for your entire career. There is no reconversion possible. :(

LOL. Would this be the same France in which the University education is 100% free? I also read about a student strike, they barricaded themselves in the school buildings because they found out they might have to start paying for their own text books. The horror!!

[Bumblebee1983]

LOL. Would this be the same France in which the University education is 100% free? I also read about a student strike, they barricaded themselves in the school buildings because they found out they might have to start paying for their own text books. The horror!!

By the by, to pay for all this in France, what exactly is the tax rate?

Free college? DAYUM!! Paying for books should be nothing for them then.

[Bumblebee1983]

Hey, I liked the TF movie, I'll kiss ass if I want to. I liked Alias and Xena and Hercules. And I'm looking forward to Star Trek too.

But if this strike puts even a single hair out of place on South Park, Battlestar Galactica, House, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Heroes, Scrubs (although it's not as good as it used to be), or Robot Chicken, there will be hell to pay.

Seriously, do I know you? My coworker says the same thing!

House is off until next year from what I've heard. Heroes too...along with Prison Break.

But then again, I don't watch any of those shows because I'm damn addicted to the XBox 360 and this board. :D

[siwel]

And there-in lies the disagreement. Every script is not a carbon copy of the pilot, like an assembly line of a car. There is quantifiably unique creative content in each episode of a series, regardless of the initial episode. That is why episodes are being sold individually on the internet. And some sell better than others.

Also, unlike a car, there is no additional cost to selling episodes on the net. It costs just as much to make the first Cadillac as it does to make the second one. But in TV, or even a movie, once the episode is made, it can be resold INFINITELY at no additional cost to the studio.


I hear you loud and clear, buddy. All I'm saying is, after you get kicked around on a couple TV shows, you can go to your next gig and say, look, I have sales numbers and download numbers that prove that my TV scripts are awesome and I deserve better pay and royalties and thingamabobs than other writers because my content will give you better exposure for your advertizers.

And novelists have to worry about infinite, instant reproduction of their content too. We're all still figuring out how to fit electronic media into a sensible business model.

Maybe you guys need to treat the studios even more like banks. Negotiate that they get a specific ROI, after which you get all the residuals in perpetuity, until some kid puts it on YouTube.

[nathan alexander]

LOL. Would this be the same France in which the University education is 100% free? I also read about a student strike, they barricaded themselves in the school buildings because they found out they might have to start paying for their own text books. The horror!!

We have many major problems in France. This is just the beginning. France is a Latin country, we have hot blood. Life in France was always great, the sunshine, les femmes, a peaceful life, and along comes globalisation, liberalism, and huge corporations. It's our culture to not like change, and we get unhappy when there is too much change.

[Bumblebee1983]

I hear you loud and clear, buddy. All I'm saying is, after you get kicked around on a couple TV shows, you can go to your next gig and say, look, I have sales numbers and download numbers that prove that my TV scripts are awesome and I deserve better pay and royalties and thingamabobs than other writers because my content will give you better exposure for your advertizers.

And novelists have to worry about infinite, instant reproduction of their content too. We're all still figuring out how to fit electronic media into a sensible business model.

Maybe you guys need to treat the studios even more like banks. Negotiate that they get a specific ROI, after which you get all the residuals in perpetuity, until some kid puts it on YouTube.

But then there's the notion of fan cuts: people taking movies and making them their own creation. Those people take credit for that, and don't give the original creators any credit whatsoever.

It's neverending.

[Bumblebee1983]

We have many major problems in France. This is just the beginning. France is a Latin country, we have hot blood. Life in France was always great, the sunshine, les femmes, a peaceful life, and along comes globalisation, liberalism, and huge corporations. It's our culture to not like change, and we get unhappy when there is too much change.

Isn't France somewhat being overrun by Muslims too?

I'm trying to word that in a nonsensitive way, but it seems I heard that the French population has gone down and Muslim population has gone up, and that the government is paying couples to have French blooded kids.

Okay, back on topic. Sorry! :o

[siwel]

By the by, to pay for all this in France, what exactly is the tax rate?

Free college? DAYUM!! Paying for books should be nothing for them then.

It's something terrifying, around 50%. But they get free healthcare for life, plus free university education. So figure $100,000 for college plus $9,000 per year to insure your family for about 40 years and you get a total of $460,000 of free services...for starters.

[Bumblebee1983]

It's something terrifying, around 50%. But they get free healthcare for life, plus free university education. So figure $100,000 for college plus $9,000 per year to insure your family for about 40 years and you get a total of $460,000 of free services...for starters.

I wouldn't be surprised if my brother stays there just for that....:rolleyes:

[nathan alexander]

Isn't France somewhat being overrun by Muslims too?

I'm trying to word that in a nonsensitive way, but it seems I heard that the French population has gone down and Muslim population has gone up, and that the government is paying couples to have French blooded kids.

Okay, back on topic. Sorry! :o

Spot on my little American friend:cool: You are very right.

[siwel]

there was a meat factory next door to my house, now it has been turned into a mosque:(

You live next to a meat factory....? And now it's a mosque. Isn't that an improvement to the neighborhood...and your noses?

[nathan alexander]

You live next to a meat factory....? And now it's a mosque. Isn't that an improvement to the neighborhood...and your noses?

Whatever you say...

[Bumblebee1983]

Spot on my little American friend:cool: You are very right.

*bows*

I thought I paid attention to the news for some reason....:cool:

[bliss81]

And there-in lies the disagreement. Every script is not a carbon copy of the pilot, like an assembly line of a car. There is quantifiably unique creative content in each episode of a series, regardless of the initial episode. That is why episodes are being sold individually on the internet. And some sell better than others.

Also, unlike a car, there is no additional cost to selling episodes on the net. It costs just as much to make the first Cadillac as it does to make the second one. But in TV, or even a movie, once the episode is made, it can be resold INFINITELY at no additional cost to the studio.

What people forget is that the STUDIOS also get paid for doing nothing once the movie or show is made. And all they did is front the cash. A studio is like a little bank, but instead of tellers and loan officers, they have executives. And they lend money to people like us and Bay to make our movies and shows, and all they ask for in returns is an interest rate of 99.99 percent on all future earnings of your creation!

that clears a lot of things up. great post.

[siwel]

Writers want to write, they want to create. It's not just work, it's a life and a passion. You're lucky to get paid doing something you love. You have to get some joy from work or working just to work to pay the bills is a dismal existance. And as for working any other job, I have three. Yep, I'm lucky to have the opportunity to have three jobs, but the employers are lucky to have me and my expertise. But do I want to do nothing but work, no living? What's the differnece in working non-stop and being a slave, or dead? The opportunity that things will change. But for change to happen, you have to take a stand. That's what the WGA is doing right now. Taking that stand. You either support them, or you don't. That's all I'm saying and it is IMHO of course.

I support them as human beings and workers trying to defend their rights and their livelihood. But I don't believe "artists" deserve special treatment so they can live the dream and be arty all day. Again, authors. Authors write when they can and publish when they con and hope and dream that one day they will be able to write full time and become the next Stephen King, or whoever you want to be.

The WGA isn't taking a stand for change, they're taking a stand to slightly modify the status quo to make more money. If they got everything they want (and they should!), the system would go on being exactly the same and in five years when some new technology or some YouTube kids get out of control we'll all be right back here again, "negotiating."

If we scrapped this union system tomorrow, the media world would go through a brief dark age as the studios tried to get away with murder, taking advantage of the lone writers. But eventually, declining sales and audience interest would force them to recognize the fact that they need to respect and compensate artists as working professionals and things would eventually reach a new, better place.

[sora]

Nice to meet you, Bob.
Thank you for your amazing scripts. Every single line in them deserves to be memorized.


They could only get away with paying you 500 bucks for something if you accepted that
and signed away the rights. It's why we negotiate and have agents..
I know what it is like exactly. That's the reason our Gaming/Animation industries are slowly dying.
We Japanese creators have to relinquish all the rights, even the moral right, to sign the contract.
If we deny, studios just hire workers from other countries. (It might sound silly to you Americans.
Sure, we should learn how to negotiate.)

And Bob, It's a real pleasure to hear from you about the present condition of American filming industry. It's very enlightening. :)

[siwel]

Well, I know that copyright law can vary a great deal from country to country. It's unfortunate that Japan's studios are also crushing the talent that drives the creative media. It's almost hard to believe after the success of something like Blair Witch and the failure of something like Hulk, they still don't understand that the general audience appreceiates cleverly conceived and executed content over mindless expensive crap.

[sora]

Well, I know that copyright law can vary a great deal from country to country. It's unfortunate that Japan's studios are also crushing the talent that drives the creative media. Thanks for your kind understanding. We must learn to fight. :)

BTW, I was wondering if I could ask Bob a question. But this is the strike thread, so I post it on Official welcome-thread for Roberto Orci (http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=655).

[MitP]

Pardon my ignorance if this sounds like a stupid question, but...is there any law that states Michael can't hire Canadian writers to pen the screenplay?

[Bumblebee1983]

Thanks for your kind understanding. We must learn to fight. :)

BTW, I was wondering if I could ask Bob a question. But this is the strike thread, so I post it on Official welcome-thread for Roberto Orci (http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=655).

Sora vs. Swivel!!!

I got tickets!! Who wants some? :D

As for a Canadian writer......if it sucks, then we can blame Canada! HAHA!!

[sora]

Sora vs. Swivel!!!
I got tickets!! Who wants some? :D
As for a Canadian writer......if it sucks, then we can blame Canada! HAHA!!

Whom we (Japanese writers) must learn to fight against or negotiate with are studios, not siwel. (His opinion is interesting to hear.) ;) Sorry for low quality of my linguistic capacity.

[Bumblebee1983]

Whom we (Japanese writers) must learn to fight against or negotiate with are studios, not siwel. (His opinion is interesting to hear.) ;) Sorry for low quality of my linguistic capacity.

Ohhh.....teehee...I gotcha now.

;)

[siwel]

Whom we (Japanese writers) must learn to fight against or negotiate with are studios, not siwel. (His opinion is interesting to hear.) ;) Sorry for low quality of my linguistic capacity.

Your English is quite excellent, Sora. It is Bumblebee who needs a refresher course.

[sora]

Your English is quite excellent, Sora. It is Bumblebee who needs a refresher course.

Thanks. :o Every time I write in English, I'm really scared of typos and AYBABTU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us).
And I like Bumblebee's sense of humor. She brightens up the boards. :)