Potentially Serious Audio Problem with the Transformers HD DVD

[MSmith]

Mr. Bay and Members of this Forum,

I recently purchased and viewed the HD DVD of Transformers, and I must say that I am in awe over the video quality and depth of the supplemental materials provided in this release. Reading the online reviews of this HD DVD shows that many others share this same sentiment. However, there may be a serious problem with the way many releases were handled in production.

Many home theater enthusiasts have noticed that the Dolby Digital Plus track on this release has really weak bass in the LFE channel, that of which does not nearly match the bass found on the Standard DVD. It also does not nearly match the bass that many remember experiencing at the commercial theater.

You can read that many members of the AV Science (AVS) forum are experiencing this problem. Below are two forum threads in which you can see the magnitude of this issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=925225

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=925725

Many of us have very capable audio systems that faithfully reproduce any movie sound track made for home cinema, so we believe that numerous discs may have problems that occurred at some point during production.

As you’ll also notice in the linked forum threads, there are numerous people who find the low bass information to be correct after direct comparisons with the Standard DVD. I myself found the bass to be great at first, but I also lack a point of reference to compare this HD DVD to. I personally thought the bass was perfectly balanced throughout most of the movie, although some sequences looked as if there should have been more impact. There are numerous other HD DVDs that have significantly more impact in the low frequency range in my setup, so it’s possible that I am suffering from this possible issue as well.

The point of this message is to see what you and other members of this forum think about this HD DVD release in terms of its audio reproduction. It would be great to have more input before Paramount is notified of this potentially serious issue.

I, as well as many other consumers in the home theater community, thank you for your time and patience.

[michaelbay]

I called Paramount to check out if we have a few bad discs out there.

Michael

[Tobi]

Way to go Michael, you can have hundreds of post on net about something like this, but it usually takes someone up the chain of command to bring it up for a studio to look into it.

I've seen the HD DVD 3 times this weekend, I had friends and family come over the house to check it out on my setup, it was a great experience, I also had a kick out of the Director's commentary.

[MSmith]

Mr. Bay,

We greatly appreciate your prompt response. It is great to have a director who cares when there looks to be a problem that significantly hinders a product's ability to accurately capture what was intended. We look forward to your findings regarding the HD DVD release of this fantastic movie.

[The Oncoming Storm]

I too have noticed a slightly lower LFE level on the hd dvd. I have two setups, both utilizing Definitive subs -- one scube 2 and another scube reference. While turning up the gains on the subwoofer certainly improves it, I have never really had to do this with any other release. Thanks for looking into this, Mr. Bay. And thanks for an amazing ht show-piece. Always impresses friends and family =].

[Johnny LaPhlegm]

Strange. I’ve found the LFE on my disc to be room rattling. There is bass almost all the way through this movie including huge boom factor during the Blackout attack and the Ironhide flip.

[piturra]

Strange. I’ve found the LFE on my disc to be room rattling. There is bass almost all the way through this movie including huge boom factor during the Blackout attack and the Ironhide flip.

Same here - OUTSTANDING LFE effects from my HT setup ...

DISPLAY: 62" Toshiba 62HM196 DLP HDTV
HD DVD PLAYER: Toshiba HD-A1 w/v2.3 FW
.... Video OUTput: HDMI
.... Audio OUTput: 6-CH Analog
AV RECEIVER: Yamaha RX-V1300
.... Audio INput: 6-CH Analog
HT/family room size: 20' x 30' w/10' high vaulted ceiling
HT Speakers:
.... Mains & side surrounds: JBL S-26 all-around
.... Center: JBL S-Center
.... Powered-sub: SVS 25-31PCi
REF CALIBRATION: 6-CH INPUT REF CALIBRATED via Toshiba HD-A1 Internal Test Tones & verified** w/DVE's HD DVD TrueHD Test Tones
.... **Speakers: ...75 dBc ±1/2 dBc
.... **Sub: ..........90 dBc ±1 dBc
........ RS Dial = 70 / Weight = C / Speed = SLOW
----------------------
Movie Sound Level = approx. -10 dBc below REF LEVEL
.... w/approx. 106+ dBc Fast LFE SPL Peaks (so you can feel :D the LFE!!!)
........ RS Dial = 100 / Weight = C / Speed = FAST

=============

It seems that some consumers w/Audio issues are using the HDMI AUDIO Connection to their AV Receiver.

Phil

[ClaytonMG]

What player are you using and how is it connected? I know the HD-A1 settings for the analog outs are EXTREMELY limited and it results in amazingly weak bass. If you have a recieve with HDMI, try connecting it that way.

[ClaytonMG]

Same here - OUTSTANDING LFE effects from my HT setup ...

DISPLAY: 62" Toshiba 62HM196 DLP HDTV
HD DVD PLAYER: Toshiba HD-A1 w/v2.3 FW
.... Video OUTput: HDMI
.... Audio OUTput: 6-CH Analog
AV RECEIVER: Yamaha RX-V1300
.... Audio INput: 6-CH Analog
HT/family room size: 20' x 30' w/10' high vaulted ceiling
HT Speakers:
.... Mains & side surrounds: JBL S-26 all-around
.... Center: JBL S-Center
.... Powered-sub: SVS 25-31PCi
REF CALIBRATION: 6-CH INPUT REF CALIBRATED via Toshiba HD-A1 Internal Test Tones & verified** w/DVE's HD DVD TrueHD Test Tones
.... **Speakers: ...75 dBc ±1/2 dBc
.... **Sub: ..........90 dBc ±1 dBc
........ RS Dial = 70 / Weight = C / Speed = SLOW
----------------------
Movie Sound Level = approx. -10 dBc below REF LEVEL
.... w/approx. 106+ dBc Fast LFE SPL Peaks (so you can feel :D the LFE!!!)
........ RS Dial = 100 / Weight = C / Speed = FAST

=============

It seems that some consumers w/Audio issues are using the HDMI AUDIO Connection to their AV Receiver.

Phil

I have mine connected through HDMI and I got amazing bass. But it shouldn't cause problems conecting it through HDMI... If anything, at least in my experience with my HD-A1, analog would end up being worse because of the lack of settings for it.

[piturra]

I have mine connected through HDMI and I got amazing bass. But it shouldn't cause problems conecting it through HDMI... If anything, at least in my experience with my HD-A1, analog would end up being worse because of the lack of settings for it.

In my case, I knew about the weak LFE problems with the HD-A1 6-CH Analog so I did the following, ...

1) HD-A1 SETUP Menu:
.... a) Set the Center Speaker = -12

... AND then REF CALIBRATED my AUDIO using the HD-A1 Internal Test Tones first. (also set the SPKR distance INFO)

============

YAMAHA RX-V1300 AUDIO REFERENCE LEVEL - using TOSHIBA HD-A1 Internal Test Tones:
- Radio Shack SPL Settings: Weight = C / Speed = SLOW / Dial = 70

TOSHIBA HD-A1 SPKR SETTINGS:
Front Left:...... -5
Center:.......... -12
Front Right:.... -5
L Surround:.... -4
R Surround:.... -4
Subwoofer:...... 0
----

SPEAKERS SPL = 75 dBc
SUBWOOFER = 82 to 83 dBc SPL

YAMAHA RX-V1300 6CH VOL CNTRL DISPLAY: 36.5
===================================



To Verify my REL CAL settings above, I played my Digital Video Essentials HD DVD TrueHD Test Tones and ...

SPEAKERS SPL = 75 dBc ±1/2 dBc
SUBWOOFER = 90 dBc ±1 dBc

YAMAHA RX-V1300 6CH VOL CNTRL DISPLAY: -10.0
===================================


I did check my AUDIO REF CALIBRATION a few days before my FRIDAY NITE HD DVD "Transformers" presentation and it didn't require any changes. ;)

YES, ... "Transformers" bass easily moved the floor, couch, wall, air, chairs and pant-legs with sub-sonic LFE when called for @ -10 dBc below REF LEVEL!!! :D

Great way to dust the wall-hangin's and melt any cobwebs in the corners! :rolleyes:

Phil

[diegs]

Can't unlock the great audio on the HD-DVD :-( My setup is Toshiba HD-A2 connected to a Denon 486 Receiver via optical and Infinity TSS 750 speakers. The Dolby Digital Plus soundtrack on Transformers reminded more of a standard DVD's DD 5.1 soundtrack. I also had spotty LFE, especially the pulse canon things. After finishing Transformers, to make sure my system wasn't malfunctioning, I put in King Kong and WOW what a difference, the rears came alive and the sub was pounding. Put back in Transformers and blah, not bad, but not even close to Kong. For another comparison I played Happy Feet in plane jane DD 5.1 and felt blah, so I switched Happy Feet's soundtrack to True HD and boom, the sound track woke up... the sea lion scene is a fierce sub workout with great rear effects.

Are their other people using an optical audio connection with this problem and anybody with great sound from the optical connection? Any suggestions?

BTW... The movie kicks Butt! Just wish the audio would too.